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Home arrow newsitems arrow UN Free Speech Rapporteur David Kaye to EuroFora: Face Risks in Draft Bills versus Radicalism, Hate+

UN Free Speech Rapporteur David Kaye to EuroFora: Face Risks in Draft Bills versus Radicalism, Hate+

Written by ACM
Tuesday, 13 October 2015
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*Strasbourg/CoE/Angelo Marcopolo/- UNO's Special Rapporteur on the Promotion and Protection of the Right to Freedom of Opinion and Expression, Dr. David Kaye, in a Topical Interview with "Eurofora", practicaly endorsed Journalists' Concerns about various current Attempts to Regulate so-called "Radicalism" or "Hate Speech", etc., and stressed the Need to Draw the Line for Free Speech on Media, etc. by Focusing mainly on whether any "Incitment to Violence" might, eventualy, exist, or not, in such cases, so as to Prevent real Risks to Exclude "Political Opponents" who simply have anOther View, even if it may appear Shocking to some, whose Free Expression might even be Necessary for Public Debates on Issues of General Interest for any Democratic Society.

                  + A Key Part of his Statements were afterwards Supported also by the European Federation of Journalists' Secretary General, Ricardo Gutierrez, at another Inteview with "EuroFora", (See Infra)
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    California University Professor Kaye was Invited by the PanEuropean CoE in Strasbourg this week at an International Conference  about Freedom of Expression as "a PreCondition for Democracy", (Comp. also other "EuroFora" NewsReports from that event), attended by more than 300 participants from various relevant European and/or International Organisations, Legal Experts and/or Judges, Free Speech NGOs, Press Associations, Journalists, etc., during Two Days,  October 13 and 14, 2015.


    This was done in order to give an opportunity to UNO's Rapporteur, who is also an American Citizen, to actively participate as a Keynote Speaker in 2 Different, but both Topical COE's Debates : - Earlier Today on "How to Create an Enabling Environment" for "Free and Pluralistic Debate", and Tomorrow Morning, on the "Implications" and "Costs" of "Mass Surveillance" even in this area.

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    - Meanwhile, Earlier Today, the Secretary General of the European Association of Journalists, Ricardo Gutierrez, an Experienced former long-time Journalist himself in Brussels, (See EFJ Chief's INTW to "EuroFora" in another, Differend NewsReport, at : .....), had launched a Vibrant Appeal to the CoE's PanEuropean Conference particpants, to Urgently face the "Concerns" that "the Community of Journalists" currently feels, particulary about various recent attempts to Prepare the Adoption of several Draft Bills in order to "Regulate" mainly so-called "Radicalism",  or even "Terrorism" propaganda, (etc) in Public Discourse.


    - He repeatedly Denounced, in this regard, f.ex. the Fact that, after the Jan. 2015 Massacre of Critical Journalists at "Charlie Hebdo" and even Jewish Civilian People elsewhere in Paris, despite many Strong, Popular Calls to Defend Freedom of Expression, nevertheless, certain "Websites were Blocked, without any authorization by an independent Judge", i.e. a Fact which provokes a Dangerous Precedent for the Future.

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    + Moreover, previously, even "Charlie Hebdo"s own Lawyer, Richard Malka; had also passionately Called upon Strasbourg's PanEuropean Organisation for Human Rights, Democracy and Rule of Law, "Not to withdraw from us (Media, etc) these Rights" which currently allow, as he said, even "Blasphema" by strongly Criticizing any Religion, and/or, f.ex., "the Right to be IslamoPhobe", etc., i.e. "that Liberty to Shock", sometimes, those who hold Differend Views, at least as long as such Critics' Attacks aim only to Criticize certain Ideas, Religions or Theories, etc. but "without Targetting any Person, Neither Seeking to Harm anyone" :  "Otherwise, it wll be Fanatism" who will Impose itself and Dictate, in practice, what People could Say, or not, Malka warned.


     - "F.ex. Houellebecq, even Declared that, in his view, "Islam is Stupid" (sic !), and he was Aquitted" in Court proceedings brought against him, Lawyer Malka pointed out in this regard, referring to an atypical but famous French Writer, to whom was Dedicated the FrontPage of "Charlie Hebdo"'s weekly Edition Published on January 7, 2015, i.e. exactly the Day of the notorious Bloody Massacre of its main Team by Armed Islamist Terrorists linked to ISIL, a few Hours later in Paris, while, Curiously, that precise Paper did Not at all refer to, and didn't even mention, neither Moameth, nor any Muslim, not even the Word "Islam", anywhere in its Headlines, but, on the Contrary, Only Attacked against ...the Christian Religion, and contained 2 Articles and 2 Photos at its FrontPage obviously aimed at Criticizing the current French President Hollande, some of his pals' "Socialist" Policies and even alleged Personal views on certain, very Topical then,  issues, (See explicit  Photo of the Original of that Historic "Charlie Hebdo" Edition, herewith)...

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    ++ In fact, as even CoE's Secretary General, Thornbjorn Jagland, had himself Warned already Today Morning, in Conclusion of his Opening Address to the Conference, Today, there is a "Need" to "Defend Freedom of Expression on the Internet".


    In particular, CoE Member States' Governments must Not "play .. into the Hands of Terrorists who wish to Hurt us and Destroy Democratic Life", f.ex. by adopting  some "DisProportionate Responses", as "we are seing Worrying Attempts to Block and Filter Internet content, in a number of States, in Old Democracies, as well as New", and "Increased Surveillance Powers for Security Services, in order to Monitor Personal Emails and Social Networking", which is "not only a Problem for Privacy", but it may also have "a Chilling Effect on Free Speech", as CoE's Chief Denounced.


    "Fearing ... that this is Heading for a place that is Messy, Confused, and Bad for Human Rights", Jagland "Urged" the 300 Participants in the Conference to "Think .. How we can Move Forward Together, in order to Uphold Human Rights and the Rule of Law OnLine". For that purpose, we should "Reject the False Choice between Liberty and Security", because "we Need Both !". Therefore, we have to "Decide where, we, as Democratic Societies, Draw the Line, between Free Speech, and Incitment to Hatred and Violence"  : A "Decision" which must be "Based on...the European Convention of Human Rights", and "make it our shared Mission to Defend Freedom of Expression OnLine", CoE's Chief concluded.


    That's why, Jagland has just "commisioned a Comprehensive, Pan-European Evaluation, which will show us, exactly, what is going on Accrosss (CoE's 47) Member States", "the Trends and the Challenges", and due to be prepared "by the Swiss Institute of Comparative Law", in order to be "Published as Early in 2016 as possible".
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    => - Questioned by "EuroFora" if, also himself, Felt "Concerned" by various such Draft Bills currently prepared and aiming to Regulate so-called "Radicalism", etc, UNO's Rapporteur on the Promotion and Protection of Freedom of Opinion and Expression, Dr. David Kaya, was Positive :


      - "We Need to be a bit" Concerned "about Anyone who drives such a Line, because when you Start to Draw a Line around "Extremist" Speech, you Risk covering a lot of speech that is Legitimate", but simply Critical, Professor Kaye replied to our Question from the outset.


    - Particularly "if it falls to the Hands of People who are very Eager to Restrict Speech, that we may deem "Extremist", while, in fact, it might just be about Restricting Opponents in a Political Arena !", he Warned.


     - "And we See that a lot ! We see that all the time !", UNO's Rapporteur Denounced.


    -  "It's Differend from Sport", because "on Sport, you might say Legitimately : We are going to Restrict Speech on the pitch, in which you are saying Hate Speech to the Other Side : Because it's a Game, and we want to maintain a level of Stability".  


    >>> - "But, Life is Not Sport ! In Life and Politics it's (mainly) about Keeping an Open Space for Public, Democratic Debate", Dr. David Kaye stressed, as a matter of Principle.


     - "Unless we are talking about Incitment to Violence" : Indeed, here, "you only Restrict Speech when it amounts to Incitment to Violence", he specified.


    - "This should be the Core" of that all, UNO's Rapporteur underlined on that Key point.


    - On the Contrary, "for any Other Kind of Speech, we should Face it with Education, More Speech", etc, f.ex. "when it's Against Traditional ways of Thinking, about a Hostile Environment," etc., (I.e. almost like some aspects of a CoE Project for Young People against "Hate Speech", partly due to Reply with Sound and Convincing Arguments in Public Fora).


    + However, "there are also Other Grounds to Restrict Speech, as, f.ex. National Security, etc. But, even there, we Need to be really Conscious, and Only adopt really, really Narrow Restrictions, when it's Crystal Clear that the Restriction is Designed to Meet a Real Threat, that is Concrete, and that the Government can Identify", Kaye explained.


    - "If you caN't do that, then, I think, that you do Risk going Down a Slipery Slope, or just Risking Abuse, and (unfortunately) we see Abuse Too Often...", UNO's Rapporteur Warned, in Conclusion of his Reply to "EuroFora"s Question.

 

------------------------------------
+ EFJ Support :
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    +Moreover,  European federation of Journalists' Secretary General, Ricardo Gutierrez, in susbequent statements to "EuroFora", supported the main thrust of UNO's Rapporteur's views :


    - "One of the Biggest Problems for a Journalist (particularly working on News) is that there is Less and Less Protection from the (CoE's Member) States, from the Governments", he warned.


    + Moreover, "Sometimes they are adopting Contradictory Legislation : F.ex. on Protection of Journalists' Sources, and, at the Same Moment, they (States) vote Legislation on Mass Surveillance", he Denounced. Because, "when you have Mass Surveillance", then, "of course, Protection of Sources is Nonsense", (i.e. practicaly Nullified, Non-Existent).


    - Therefore, "what we (CoE's Freedom of Expression/Democracy International Conference participants, from main Press Freedom Actors accross Europe and all the World) are for More Protection for Journalists, because Journalists are Vital for Democracy, we Need Journalism in order to Ensure Democracy", he stressed, in line with ECHR's (but also IACHR : See Infra) well Established case-law.


    - Indeed, "We Feel that the Profession (of Journalism) has Less protection currently, and, therefore,  "we Ask Governments for More Protection", Ricardo Gutierrez concluded on this point.


    - Questioned by "EuroFora" about "Concrete Examples" illustrating that issue, EFJ's Head pointed to the Fact that : - Nowadays, "F.ex., more and more Governments are taking Legislation to Counter Terrorism". But, "the Problem is that Some Governments, Today, are MisUsing those Legislations",  inter alia, also "to Impeach (Impead) Journalists, Hindering them to do their work : That's the case in Turkey", he pointed out.


    - Even if, since several Years ago, we have ...Journalists in Prison in Turkey, based on (Controversial, i.e. often Criticized by the CoE and/or EU as Anti-Democratic and Illegal) <<Anti-Terrorist>> Legislation". F.ex. "Most of the Journalists working for Kurdish Media, in South-Eastern Turkey, were in Prison. Today, we have still 21 Journalists in Prison in Turkey, and, a lot of them, Based on <<Anti-Terrorism>> Legislation.


    >>> - "That's One of the Problems : The MisUse of  some Legislations adopted for Other Purposes", the Experienced Head of the PanEuropean Federation of Journalists denounced.


    + When "EuroFora" reminded that, Moreover, a Collegue from Turkey (speaking on behalf of an "Independent Press" NGO), hasjust Denounced, here, at the CoE, in Strasbourg, what he called .. "Open Prisons", pointing at "Media under Censorship, and even Self-Censorship", because of the Fear and Threats provoked by an Anti-Democratic Legislation and/or Practice by Ankara's Authorities, EFJ's Secretary General was also positive :


    + "That's the Other Point : When you are" Threatened by such kind of things, which, in real Practice, sometimes can be "even More Important !", he Denounced.

- "That's why we must Ensure a Global Safety for Journalists. Because,  one of those Chilling Effects of those Imprisonments, Harassments", particularly "Judicial Harassment, is the Fact that Most of the Journalists are doing Self-Censorship : So, it's a way to have an Impact on Press Freedom, without showing it ! So, it Seems that everything is OK, But, in Fact, Journalists are Not Playing their Role, as a Social Actor Ensuring the Transparency of Democracy", he rightfuly Denounced.


    + Moreover, Invited by "EuroFora" to Develop and Clarify further a Key Observation that he had made during an earlier CoE's Debate, about some reportedly Dangerous Draft Bills against "Radicalism", etc., EFJ's Head pointed at certain Basic Facts :


    + You can see that in various cases, including even France, China, Turkey, etc., he replied. -"When there were the Attacks on "Charlie Hebdo", everybody was for "Press Freedom", "Freedom of Expression", etc.  But, "one of the First Decisions taken by the Government afterwards, was to Ban some Websites", accused to be "so-called <<Radical>> Websites, without any Judge's Contradictory Decision : Just an Administrative Decision, taken by a Minister of Interior" only. - "That's Not Fair. That's Not the way to Dea with Press Freedom, with Freedom of Expression" , Gutierrez criticized, as a matter of General Principle.


    In this regard, reference was made by "EuroFora" also to "Chrarlie Hebdo's Lawyer, Richard Malka, who had earlier launched a Call at the CoE, "Not to Deprive us (Media) of the Possibility even to Schock, on the Condition that there will be No Aggression against one or more Individual Persons or Social Groups.


    - "There are always Limits, or course". But "Sometimes, when People are Reacting, with Emotional reactions, it's very Often Bad". Instead of that, "we should Think about the Effect, the Impact of Political Decisions", he advised.
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    + Meanwhile, a quite Similar Orientation, around the Basic Distinction of whether a given Speech aims to Harm one or more Persons by provoking Physical Violence against them, or not, seems to be Supported also by the Experienced former ECHR vice-President Francoise Tulkens, who was the Keynote Speaker Today in a Long Debate about the Freedom "to Offend, Shock, or Disturb", as ECHR's well-known case law frequently notes about Freedom of Expression's Scope, and "Hate Speech", if not even openly Racist or Terrorist Propaganda, according to a Formula which "EuroFora"s co-Founder had initialy seen only in ...Turkish Government's usual Pretexts for Prosecuting various Political Dissidents, a long-time ago, before having the Strange Feeling to find it, much Later-on, even among several ECHR's Rulings, (sometimes Controversial)...


    President Tulkens (who has also been very much involved in CoE's Steering Committee on Media, etc), herself acknowledged that, indeed, at some moments in the recent Past, she had personaly wondered whether at least some among ECHR's subsequent Rulings might, or not, have given Food for Thought to Critics, and/or leave a partly Obscure Distinction between what was really allowed, and what was Legitimately and clearly prohibited in Freedom of Speech issues : If I had another opportunity to do so, I would have really Changed at least the way to present that Distinction better, she criticaly observed in substance, before Noting that, Fortunately, meanwhile, the ECHR itself had, more Recently, started anew to Positively Clarify things. But she admitted that, in fact, that Crucial Matter Needs to be, Today, even more Carefuly scrutinized and resolved in a really efficient and satisfactory way for such an important Human Right, at the base of any Democratic Society..      

                                              
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    + By a Timely Coincidence, Dr Kaye's  New Global Report on Freedom of Expression Worldwide, has "Just been Posted .. Today on-line", including at his own personal "Twitter" account, (as "UN Report"), in order to be Debated "for Next Thursday at New York, in UN's General Assembly", he told "EuroFora".


    However, he declined, carefuly, to pronounce himself on a Sharp Controversy which had re-Started, meanwhile, among Participants also at this CoE's Conference, Earlier Today, about the Effect on Freedom of Expression on-line that may have CoE's Treaty against "CyberCrime", (also known as "Budapest Treaty"), simply because, even if , indeed, "It's Global on Geography, and it's Global in its Subject Matter" (CyberCrime), but "I need some Time to examine that",


    Living with his Family in California, (where he "Wishes to be Always"), but coming from Ohio, America's Heartland, while being a son of Eastern European Migrants from areas which are nowadays "Ukraine, Lithuania, Poland", etc, i.e. almost another, then European Heartland in an Historic Past, (which was once, at least partly United, and even Defended European Culture, Civilisation and basic Freedoms, by daring to Face succesfuly the Military Attacks of former Ottoman-Turc Empire, until Ukraine was Liberated, also with the Help of Russia mainly at its Eastern Regions), but loves to read a classic Polish Poet, (naturally Translated in good English), as he told "EuroFora"...

(../..)

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***
 
(NDLR : Partly UPDATED)
 
("DraftNews", as already sent to "EuroFora" Subscribers/Donors, earlier. A more accurate, full Final Version, might be published asap).

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Recent developments proved that Europe can suceed to overcome challenges by aiming at great objectives, and this is needed also in 2009, said EU chairman, French President Nicolas Sarkozy.

    - "It's in the name of Great Ideas, Projects, Ambition and Ideals, that EU can overcome" challenges, stressed Sarkozy at EU Parliament in Strasbourg, in conclusion of a dense 7 months EU Chairmanship. "It's even easier for Europe to have Great projects, able to overcome national egoism, instead of limiting itself only to small projects" (unable to do alike), he observed.     

- "Europe must remain Ambitious and understand that the World needs her to take Decisions". "The World needs a Strong Europe", which "thinks on its own, has convictions, its own responses, its imagination" : "A Europe which does not limit itself into following" others, (as it did in the Past, when it followed USA, f.ex. on Bosnia). On the contrary, "Europe should undertake its own responsibilities", he said, after a series of succes in stopping the War between Russia and Georgia, and organizing the 1st EuroZone's Summit in Paris, which incited the Washington DC G-20 Summit to extend similar decisions World-wide.  


    - "When you sweep it all under the carpet, prepare yourself for hard tomorrows", he warned. "What hinders decisions is the lack of Courage and Will, the fading away of Ideals", he stressed before EU Parliament's 2008 debate on Human Rights and Sakharov prize on Freedom of thought attributed by MEPs to Chinese cyber-dissident Hu Jia, followed by an EU - Turkey meeting on Friday.

    - "I don't abandon my convictions" and "I will take initiatives" on EU level also in 2009, Sarkozy announced later. "France will not stop having convictions and taking initiatives" on Europe. + "It's an Error to wish to pass over the Heads of those who are elected in their Countries" : "It's an integrism I always fought against"', he warned.
---------------------
French EU Presidency faced 4 unexpected Crisis :

- An institutional crisis, with the Irish "No" to EU Lisbon Treaty, just before it started. A geopolitical crisis, wth the threat of War between Russia and Georgia risking to throw Europe back to Cold-war divisions, on August. A World-wide Financial and Economic crisis, arriving at a bad moment before crucial 2009 EU elections. And even a Strasbourg's mini-crisis, with EU Parliament's roof curiously falling down, from unknown reasons, in a brand new building on August, provoking an unprecedented transfert of the 2 September Plenary Sessions...

But it wasn't enough to stop Sarkozy ! On the contrary, it stimulated him...
---------------------------------------

- "The better way to deal with the recent problems of EU institutions (as the "3 NO" by France, the Netherlands and Ireland) is to take them as a "Test" in order to find solutions closer to Citizens' concerns", said later in Strasbourg Sarkozy's new choice as Ministe for EU affairs, Bruno Le Maire.

- On the Institutional front, Sarkozy gave Time to the Irish to think about it, and stroke on December a deal including a New Referendum after the June 2009 EU Elections, in exchange of a promise to keep the rule of "one EU Commissioner for each EU Member Country", and some opt-outs on Defence and Fiscal EU policies, Abortion, etc. If the Irish get a "Yes" Majority, then the institutional package could be completed in 2010 or 2011 on the occasion of Croatia's probable EU accession.

He was accused in Strasbourg to upgrade EU Council and downgrade EU Commision, but he replied that "strong Political initiatives by EU Council reinforce also the more technical role of EU Commission, under the political-technical leadership of its President", all 3 "working together with EU Parliament".


- But, meanwhile, Sarkozy energetically spearheaded an Historic 1st Summit of EuroZone's 15 Heads of State and Government at EU's core, exceptionally enlarged to a partial participation of British Prime Minister Gordon Brown, on October 12 in Paris' Elysee palace, which started to tackle succesfully the growing world Financial crisis.

    It also paved the way for its endorsement by a subsequent Brussels' 27 EU Member States' gathering, before it all come to Washington's G-20 Summit. And "Europe was united, it asked for the 1st G-20 Summit, and it will also organise the next G-20 Summit on April in London", he observed.   

 But a Conference with EU, Russia, African and other Developing Countries, hosted in Strasbourg shortly after Washington G-20 Summit by the French EU Presidency, took a Resolution asking to enlarge participation to Global Economic Governance. Many found, indeed, illogic and unacceptable that f.ex. states as Turkey were given a seat at G-20 level, while all African Countries, and even the African Union itself, representing the greatest Continent on Earth, were excluded...


    Meanwhile, even USA''s "Paulson No 3" Plan, was, in fact, inspired by Europe's No 1 Plan", Sarkozy observed, largelly applauded by MEPs.

    And "Europe showed Solidarity" by mobilizing some 22 Billion credit for Hungary, 1,7 billion for Ukraine, as we do nowadays for Baltic States, etc., he added.

    The move on Economy was extended on December by an EU stimulus' plan totalling some 200 billion Euros, including 5 Billions released by EU Commission for big Projects, as well as various parallel National plans for Economic revival, (fex. 26 billions in France alone). They might appear limited, compared to USA President-elect Obama's reported plan to boost the American economy with 800 billion $, but at least succeded to overcome Europe's divisions for the first time on Economic governance, opening new horizons.

- The French President stressed even harder the unique role of an active EU Council's chairmanship, when he moved swiftly and efficiently, at the beginning of August, to succesfully stop War between Russia and Georgia, at the last minute, which threatened to bring Europe back to Cold War division.

"We (EU) also wanted to avoid a situation like in Bosnia, in the Past, when EU was absent, so that our American friends took their responsibilitues, and EU only followed", despite the fact that the conflict took place in Europe. Now, it was the EU who took its responsibilities".

A roadmap towards a new PanEuropean Security policy, before which all unilateral moves to place new Missiles (from USA or Russia) would be freezed, was proposed by Sarkozy after a meeting with Russian president Medvedev, at the eve of Washington DC's G-20 Summit.

Ukraine's "European" character was stressed at a Sarkozy - Jushenko Summit, September in Paris, while EU adopted on December an "Eastern policy", in which, "I'm convinced that our (EU's) future is to find with our Neighbours the conditions for Economic Development. Peace and Security, by explaining them that.. they must respect (Human Rights') Values, and adopt behaviors different from the Past", explained Sarkozy in Strasbourg.

Meanwhile, the "Union for the Mediterranean" was created, since July's Summit if 45 Heads of State and Government in Paris, as "an organisation for a permanent Dialogue, that we need", mainly in order to tackle the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, by bringing together, for the 1st time, Israelis and Arabs, where "Europe must be present, in order to avoid a frontal clash".

- "If Europe doesn't take its part for Peace in the Middle-East, nobody else will do that in our place", Sarkozy stressed.
-----------------------
    Meanwhile, other EU Agreements were brokered during the French EU Presidency on Immigration, (fex. common Asylum rules, etc), and Climat- Energy :

    - On Climat-Energy, the 2007 German EU Presidency had fixed a triple 20% aim for 2020 (20% renewable Energies, 20% reduction of CO2 emmission, 20% energy efficience/economies), and the 2008 French EU Presidecny realized that, making the necessary compromises in order to modernize EU's industry, but without throwing some former Central-Eastern European Countries into abrupt Economic break down risking "social explosion".

    - Defence-Security EU policy was mainly postponed for April 2009, since both German chancellor Merkel and French president Sarkozy want to strike a deal with the new American president Obama in Strasbourg's NATO Summit.

    However, with all these 4 unexpected Crisis diverting attention to other urgencies, People wil wonder now, what happened to the famous deal proposed by freshly-elected French President Sarkozy on Turkey's controversial EU bid, back on August 2007, to continue EU - Turkey negotiations, but on the double condition that core chapters, intrinsequally linked with EU Membership, will be excluded, and that a collective Reflexion and Debate on Europe's future would start before the end of 2008.

    It was meant to reply to the crucial question : What kind of Europe do we want in 10 or 20 Years from now : A large Market, or a Political Europe, with a popular identity ? In Sarkozy's thinking, presented in his 2 landmark speeches on Europe in Strasbourg, shortly before and after the 2007 Elections, (on February and July 2007), Turkey's controversial EU bid would be incompatible with the second choice.

    It's true that EU Commision's Chairman, Jose Barroso, (who had notoriously declared, as former Portuguese Prime Minister, that he found "nonsense" the idea that Europe might become equal to the US), had repeatedly tried to avoid that Sarkozy's criticism on Turkey might start winning a larger audience in Europe, preferring a discrete "wismens' committee" work. And that most of the personalities later chosen in order to participate in a Committee on Europe's Future, are too much linked with Socialist parties and/or American policies, to be really critical of USA's notorious wish to impose Turkey to the EU, as Sarkozy had noted himself since March 2007..

     - "It's on EU Council's presidency to take political initiatives. EU Commission has other competences", stressed Sarkozy. The "European Ideal" is to "build Europe with the States, not against them". "Ask Europeans to chose between their countries and Europe won't work. You don't choose between your two parents : We must add them together".

    "France and Germany have an Historic Duty to work together, precisely because of what happened to the Past. We have to work hand by hand. We cannot be separated.It goes beyond me and Mrs Merkel today, Mr Schroeder and Mr. Chirac yesterday. It's not a choice, it's a duty to Europe and to the World".  "We need Germany, as Germany needs Europe". Compromise is inevitable, here as everywhere, and each one made some steps towards eachother's positions.

    But "it's true that Mrs Merkel didn't chose her Socialist partners, while I chose mine", Sarkozy said, in an indirect hint that the Socialist Minister of Finance in Germany might be a cause of minor past disagreements in Economy, which were overcome in recent negotiations.

    "We (France and Germany) have particular duties in Europe", but "in a Europe of 27 Member States, it's not enough for France and Germany to agree between them.

    "I always thought that Great Britain has a special role to play in Europe. ... Now, everybody "saw what it cost payed the UK for having been too exclusively open towards the US (and) Financial services. Europe needs the UK, but also the UK needs Europe" :- "We were able to face the hardest moment of the Financial crisis because the UK clearly chose Europe", stressed Sarkozy, reminding Gordon Brown's exceptional participation to the Historic 1st Heads of State/Government Summit of EuroZone, October 12 in Paris (See EuroFora's Reportage from Elysee Palace then).

     - "Some look at Europe with old glasses aged 30 years ago. While we must look at her in relation to what it will be in 30 years" in the Future, Sarkozy concluded.

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