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Home arrow newsitems arrow MACRON to EF+: It's up to the People of Europe to SEIZE THE CHANCE of EU Citizens' Consultations !

MACRON to EF+: It's up to the People of Europe to SEIZE THE CHANCE of EU Citizens' Consultations !

Parašė ACM
Tuesday, April 17, 2018
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*Epinal (Vosges' Mountains)/Angelo Marcopolo/- Speaking briefly to Journalists, including "Eurofora", just after the Official Inauguration of the 1st in a 6 Months-long Series of EU Citizens Consultations between April and November 2018 on Europe's Future, new French President Emanuel Macron, suddenly turned around, Looking straight towards there where we were standing, and shouted aloud, with a particularly Strong Voice :


 - "Democracy Belongs to the People !"


=> In consequence, "it's up to the People of Europe to Seize this Chance of Citizens' Consultations, and make them Spread" throughout 27 EU Member Countries (as scheduled),

 

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+ as well as, eventually, advance even further in the foreseeable future, (See Infra + Following Article), according to the Wider Horizon of his landmark Speech, symbolically made at the Historic BirthPlace of Democracy in Acient Greece's Pnyx Rock, facing Acropolis in Athens on 9/2017, (See : http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/macronatthehistoricsourcesofdemocracy.html).


--------------------

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Meanwhile, in Addition to his Surprising, Last-Minute Choice to Launch a "Long March" for these UnPrecedented EU Citizens' Consultations, just after his Debate with MEPs at EU Parliament in Strasbourg (See relevant "Eurofora"s NewsReports at : http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/macronlsongmarchtoconsulciti.html + http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/macronineuparliamentaskscitizensdebates.html, etc), Not at an "Euro-Metropole", but ... Up to he Mountains of nearby Vosges, at Epinal City, (known as HQ of Historic "Social-Gaullist" Top Politician Philippe Seguin, and Birthplace of the Father of Sociology : Emile Durkheim with a Fort still ..Haunted by Napoleon's Ghost according to a Legend), at the Same Time that his LRM Party supporters Started their "March for Europe",

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Macron made, Today, even anOther indirect Reference to ... Mao, concerning his Famous Appeal, at the Beginning of the "Cultural Revolution" back on the "Sixties" (1966+), to "let All Flowers (i.e. Political Ideas) flerish !", by Stressing from the outset, that, Nowadays "it's Time to find a New Debate", where "All Ideas on Europe must be presented !"


---------------------------

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+ And "We must always Hear even Critical Voices and Opposite Views too" : It's "an Indispensable Moment of (mutual) Recognition and Exchanges", Macron advised one of his own Fans, who had appeared anxious about several People's alleged "Misunderstandings" about Europe.


- "Afterwards, we must Explain, become Pedagogic, use Arguments".


>>> In fact, "Even Me, I might, perhaps, sometimes make an Error", and/or "Have Not Seen yet a Point that Others (our Interlocutors) are trying to Suggest", the new French President bravely and rightfully, Acknowledged, clearly Recognizing the Value of Debates' Dialectics also as a means and procedure in order to Seek and Find the Truth, (as World-Famous Ancient Greek Philosopher Platon notoriously supported, particularly through his writings about Socrates' Dialogues).

 

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=> Therefore, Macron called interested EU Citizens to send their Debates to a special Website at the Internet, while Also practicing physical "Human Contacts" in actual Meetings, which are "Useful".

 


+ We must "Invite even People who are Against Europe, to do themselves some Citizens Consultations, because they are "Pedagogical" and "a Fundamental Tool", particularly during the present "Times, which, for Europeans, are of Essential importance, he urged.


---------------------------------

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During a Press Briefing organized by the Elysée Palace, to which "Eurofora" and Other Strasbourg's Medias had been Invited to participate through Tele-Conference methods at the Eve of Macron's visit to EU Parliament here, the Accent had been put mainly on 2 Key-Points :


(A) that Everybody could Participate and/or Organize such a "Citizens' Consultation" on Europe's Future, by Internet and/or through Meetings, etc., i.e. not only Public Authorities, Politicians or Experts, but also Associations, Students, even a Simple Citizen.


(B) On the Condition to provide also for a kind of "Restitution" of the main Results of that Consultation, to a Centralized Body specially set up in order to Monitor the Organisation of such Events, Collect and Preserve their Outcome.


=> I.e., a Mechanism apparently Conceived to be Easy for EU Citizens to Replicate almost Everywhere throughout Europe, while also allowing to have an Overall View of the Total Input.


--------------------------------

QUESTIONS...
--------------------------------------

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Introducing to "1,5 Hour of Exchanges" <<Live>> between several Hundreds of registered EU Citizens and the French President at Epinal's Congress Center, (in the presence of various Politicians and Elysée's Press Pool of Paris and Strasbourg Accredited Journalists, just arrived from an EU Parliament RDV in a Special Bus, including "Eurofora",

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------

 Macron Started by briefly Resuming the main points of his short Presentation to the Debate with MEPs, Earlier this Morning, about his Preference for a "United, Democratic and Sovereign Europe" (See relevant "Eurofora"s NewsReport at : http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/macronineuparliamentaskscitizensdebates.html) :

 

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- I.e, the "Capacity to give your Own Rules", and "to Exist in the World", in Addition to the National Sovereignity of each EU Member Country, but particularly for Issues such as Migration, Digital Technologies and Protection of private Data, Energy, (etc), where "Size" matters in order to be Efficient, f.ex. facing USA, China, etc., as he reminds.  


--------------------------------


=> EU Citizens' Questions issued from that 1st such event, organized this time by a special team under the State Secretary for EU Affairs, Nathalie Loiseau, touch upon a Variety of Concrete Issues around Europe, and Receive Macron's Replies, one by one, taking enough Time to enter, in a Fast and Sharp, but Substantial way, into the Heart of the matter, real Practice included, whenever needed :

macron_hears_question_at_1st_eu_citizens_consultation__overall_eurofora_400



F.ex., among many others, (See Note at the End), it's also about:


- whether we should Speak about "Europeans", or not, (in Addition to every EU Citizen's National Identity, which remains valid and pertinent, practically co-existing with the EU level);


-  the 2008 Economic Crisis, Banks and Speculation (resulting also to the Current Need for the EU to "Complete Banking Union", etc) ;


- whether the French "NO" Vote of 2005 (followed also by that of Netherlands, Ireland, etc, i.e. on the Occasion of a Draft EU Constitution, shortly After Opening controversial and unpopular EU "Accession" Negotiations with Turkey) corresponded to a Political "Error" (See also Infra) ;

macron_explaining__1st_eu_citizens_consultation__closer_eurofora_400 

-------------------


- the recent USA-UK-France AirStrikes in Syria (after allegations of Chemical weapons in Ghouta Suburb in Damascus Capital City, until recently occupied by Islamist Terrorists and Other Armed Rebels) ;


- Economic situation's Need to "Settle the Real Problems, Instead of Wasting Public Funds" aggravating a Public Deficit, (as f.ex, Germany did, back from 2009, when it "was in Greater Recession" than France, But managed to avoid more Deficit) ;


- Space High-Tech's developments in a World-wide competition and EU's role, (an anew Topical Issue, due to be partly debated also in an EU Parliament's STOA Committee's Panel of Experts, later this week in Strasbourg, on Thursday Morning, April 19) ;


- the eventual creation of an "EU ID Card", (in Addition to the National one, during the Next EU Mandate of 2019-2024, and also in order to Help Manage the recent Mass Irregular Migration Issues, etc) ;


- (anew  : Comp. Supra) the 2005 "NO" Vote, which was just "Droped by Bureaucrats", making People wonder : - "Why Debate again ?", (Macron reacting by Finding "Better a Good Debate" going on the Substance of the Issues really at stake, "Instead of Only a Yes or No", but also Promising that there will be "Not any Structural Change withOut Asking the People"'s views, in order "Not to Repeat the 2005 ... Betrayal of Democracy", as he Harshly Criticized it);


- Why EU Countries do "Not yet Speak all in 1 Voice" on "Foreign Policy", (where Macron pointed, f.ex., to a succesfull Negotiation with Iran by EU's Representative, Federica Mogherini, and did Not Exclude that also in the Future, when CFSPolicy would become Identical for EU Countries, But Warning that there are "Not Yet" "Identical Views and Interests", due also to History/GeoPolitics, since f.ex. "some EU Member Countries were Invaded by Turkey", as he reminded, while Others had special links to Russia in the Past, etc., added also to the Fact that "there are Different Rules on Military Operations" : F.ex., "Only France can Act Fast", while "Others need Long Parliamentary Debates", etc);

- "Energy Sovereignity" for Europe, (apparently Not Possible in Short Term, Difficult in Medium, since, f.ex., France = Independent, but Others still Depend on Russia, or Turkey, etc. But we "Can Coordinate" actions Now, and "Afterwards Advance further, When our Interests are the Same". But, during the Next Decades, many EU Member Countries may still be based on some Different Foreign Policy options);

- "English Language" domination ? (a problem to be Solved via Pluri-Linguism : I.e. by systematically Learning at least 3 Languages = Mother Tongue, English, and anOther one, f.ex. French, etc. It's not normal for most French to be almost the Only in the World to stay Traditionally Uni-Lingual in practice. In such a context, Sometimes, even African Languages can be Useful to Europe :  f.ex. they are of decisive importance for Development, etc);

 

 macron_at_1st_eu_citizens_consultation_closer_eurofora_400


- Several Rural Areas, (including, f.ex., even those Vosges' Mountains), "do Not yet really Profit from the EU", complained another, Local participant. (This concerns, mainly, Road/Rail Infrastructures, where Germany's experience of - 30% Less Cost for efficient Local/Regional Railroad Links can be Useful. On Agricultural Policy, National States still remain in charge, but they Need an EU Complement. It's true that "Metropolisation-Effects", visible f.ex. in Strasbourg, don't exist in Provinces. But the development of Digital Technologies and High-Speed Networks, spreading all-over the Country, added to "Tele-Work" and "if we get a Full Digital Market" in the EU, with Hundreds of Millions of potential Customers, could bring a Big Change, giving a Chance to Rural Areas, where the Quality of Nature and Everyday Life is often Better, rightfully observed Macron - who has had also an interesting Experience there, as former Minister of Economy, when he signed a relevant Agreement between the French State and Strasbourg's Alsace Region about Spreading High-Speed Internet Networks : See "Eurofora"s NewsReport from the relevant Press Conference, then, at: http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/strasbourgregionpresidentrichertandfrencheconomyministermacrononhighspeedinternet.html ).

- A partly Related, critical Question concerned specifically a key part of Agriculture : F.ex., an Animal Raising Farmer said that there were "Enough Roads", and even a "Good Sanitary Quality" of Farm Products, as milk, meat, etc., but they were "No More Competitive in the Jobs' Market" abroad. (Macron, inter alia, observed, in Reply, that, in fact, it's just a Part of that Jobs-chain which raised problems in trade, referred also to recent EU Debates and moves on the Wider Issue of "Posted Workers", and appeared optimist for the future. "Eurofora" remembers that Similar Questions had been raised, in a recent Past, also by Neigbouring Alsace Region Farmers, concerning, then, the Comparative Cost of Lowest Salaries for Seasonal Workers in Agriculture, particularly in adjacent German areas before the recent introduction of a Lower Salary Guarantee, where we were, indeed, Surprized to find that even the Price of Milk was Cheaper than in France, while most Cows were Born, Raised and Exported by France to Germany and other EU Countries !)


- Frustrated by the obvious Lack of any Radical, fully-fledged "Anti-European", or, at least, "Euro-Sceptic", be it from the Far Right or the Far Left area of the Political Spectrum, (that Mrs Loiseau's Team had, perhaps, found Difficult to discover when they organized that 1st Citizens' Consultation), President Macron, Finally, exploded with a sincere Cry :  - But, isn't there anyone who has at least Doubts about the European Project ?...


- The guy who Dared raise his hand in public, apparently did his best, but didn't really convince about his supposed "Euro-sceptic" stance, (since we have all seen "Better", even among some EU Parliament's MEPs...)  : He Briefly evoked "Migration" Problems, but preferred to Focus on the Price of everyday consumption goods. F.ex., even the Wine ("Picon") that I use to drink, Nowadays Costs almost X 3 Times More than in the Past, he complained...


- "Your Wine ("Picon")'s Price is Not Fixed by the EU", sharply Replied Macron. But it's True that there are, indeed, also some Other Popular, Everyday Consumption Goods, such as, f.ex., even Coffee, Bread, etc. in Paris too, whose Prices have gone up, some years ago, and this is another, Different Issue that We have to Fix, he observed.


--------------------------------

 >>> Concluding this 1st EU Citizens' Consultation, the embattled French President applied his own Recipe, to be Pedagogical :


- Always Remember the Main things : "PEACE - FREEDOM - SIZE", he resumed :


=> EU Avoided Wars during More than 60 Years, stoping Military Domination Dreams as Never Before ; Helps Respect Citizens' Human Rights Better than several Authoritarian Regimes around the World ; offers a Market X more than 10 Times Wider than our National Market, and, more generally, EU has the Size required in order to be able to Deal with certain Big Issues in the World (Comp., f.ex., Supra, etc), as he Briefly, but Substantially, Highlighted in fine.

--------------------------

Last, but not least : One of the Photo's published here by "Eurofora" was Kindly provided to us, upon our Request, (just after an Electricity Shortage interrupted our own Tool), by a Collegue, Journalist for Radio, Margaretta Svensson, from ...Sweden !

=> One concrete Proof more, that Macron's "EU Citizens' Consultations", may, indeed, have a real Chance to widely Spread accross most EU Member States, (including up to Scandinavia)s..


 (../..)


----------------------------------------


***


(NDLR : Obviously, these are some Hasty, InComplete NOTES, taken "Live", on the spot, after 2 or 3 Days withOut Time even to Sleep overNight, particularly Because of some Strange, unjustified Practical Obstacles, including on Timeline Contradictions among Key Events in Strasbourg and Epinal, etc [Comp., f.ex., among others, also: http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/macronlsongmarchtoconsulciti.html , etc]. So that, in order to have a really Full and Accurate View of all those Questions/Replies between EU Citizens and President Macron, one has also to Better seek to find a Full VIDEO, at least of the Main Event, which should not omit to Pop up on the Web, sooner or later, since there were some People placed at Key-points in order to take Shots, by just Pressing a Button, and afterwards Simply "Copy-Paste" all at the Internet. => In Consequence, Readers could Usefully COMBINE Both Tools, f.ex., by Chosing at the Above-Mentiioned Written List some Interesting Questions/Replies, and, According to the Approximative Order shown in this List, afterwards Search to Find at a Video on the Web, All or Part of what was actually said, on this or another concrete point).


***


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People in Europe and the World expect from CoE to make a succes of its "Monitoring" for Human Rights and Democracy, despite difficulties, said Finland's President Tarja Halonen to "EuroFora" at a crucial moment for the mecanism built 15 years ago by the paneuropean organization which celebrates its 60th Anniversary in 2009.

Halonen, known as "Mother" of CoE's "Monitoring" mecanism, a long-time MEP and former Foreign Minister before becoming Finland's President, holds a long experience in the mattter, after also serving twice as CoE and EU Chairwoman in the past. That's why she is well placed to judge how CoE's "monitoring" should deal today with some crucial issues of importance both to CoE and to the EU.

The move came just a Month before a crucial, last visit to Turkey, scheduled for June, by the President of CoE''s "Monitoring" Committee, Ukranian MEP Serge Holovaty, to finalize his Report on Ankara, the CoE Member State with the longest Monitoring procedure. From its results depends its overall credibility.

This is a Test-case, because, in fact, it's in order to avoid Sanctions threatened against Turkey by a CoE's Assembly's April 1995 Resolution for grave Human Rights violations, Democracy gaps, the continuing Military Occupation in Cyprus, the unresolved Kurdish problem, Aegean differend with Greece, etc., that MEPs decided to create, for the 1st time on April 1996, a "Monitoring" proces, allegedly destinated to check, without excluding Countries who did not fulfill all CoE's standards.

In the Past, the obliged withdrawal of Greece's Military regime and of its "Civil" cover-up out of the CoE had helped bring back Democracy in 1974. But, on the contrary, since April 1996, the idea was to "monitor" Human Rights' respect while keeping most concerned Countries inside the CoE. After Turkey's oldest example, this was extended also to several former "Eastern" European Countries, even if CoE's Assembly has imposed to some of them (fex. Ukraine, Russia, etc., after Belarus, Serbia, etc) various "Sanctions", that Ankara always avoided. Curiously more succesful even than .. USA itself, (a CoE "Observer" since 1995), which has been at least threatened with sanctions some years ago..

EU-effects of CoE's Monitoring process became obvious between 2001-2008, since the "closure" of this procedure, when CoE felt that a Country had met most of its Human Rights, Democracy and Rule of Law obligations, (i.e. the "Copenhagen Criteria" for the EU), helped trigger Negotiations with the EU for "Accession" or other closer relations : This occured already before the 2004 and 2007 EU Enlargements to former "Eastern" European Countries, as well as for the commencement of "accession" negotiations with Croatia, and of "open-ended" negotiations with Turkey in 2005.

    But a stricking new development are Holovaty's recent findings that on core Human Rights issues as Torture and Freedom of Expression, Turkey, even "5 Years after" CoE closed its "Monitoring", back in 2004, inciting EU to start accession Negotiations in 2005, still presents grave problems.

    His findings are of crucial importance after a 2008 CoE Resolution called, "if need be", to "seriously consider the possibility of Re-Opening the Monitoring procedure for Turkey" : A move which might affect Ankara's controversial EU bid, since EU Accession Negotiations are based on the Hypothesis that the Candidate fullfils the "Copenhagen Criteria" (See above)..
-------------------------
    Holovaty expressed his will to check  "Matters still Outstanding" and  those that he "didn't have an opportunity to discuss" at an earlier visit this year, "in order to discuss the more complex issues in greater depth", at his forthcoming New Visit to Ankara, before the December 2009 EU Summit.  This is all based on the 2004 CoE Resolution which stresses that, CoE "will continue.. post-monitoring Dialogue with the Turkish authorities,...in addition to a 12-points list,..and on any Other Matter that might arise in connection with Turkey’s Obligations as a CoE member state".

    CoE's Resolution also asks  from Turkey "to secure the proper Implementation of Judgements, particularly in the Cyprus v. Turkey InterState case", of 2001, which concerns also the plight of many Hundreds of MISSING People. It adds Turkey's obligations to "execute" ECHR's Judgements in the Loizidou case,..and in particular adopt General Measures to avoid repetition or continuation of Violations found by the Court" to the detriment of Refugees.

    Nevertheless, Holovaty said to "EuroFora" that "MISSING" persons,"might be included" and cannot be excluded, but he has yet to examine the situation "to find out  which issues will be raised" to the Turkish Government.

    Therefore, "EuroFora" asked Halonen, as the Historic "Mother" of CoE's Monitoring mecanism, if she thought that, "whenever there are grave Human Rights Violations, as fex. "MISSING" persons, attested even by ECHR's judgements, they should be always checked by a Monitoring process. Or could they be forgotten ?"
    
     - "We (CoE) must be, at the same time, Fair, Realistic, but not in the mind that "now we have Forgotten", etc., replied to "EuroFora"'s question Halonen, speaking as a matter of general principle.

    - "When we think of those People that are suffering from the lack of Democracy, of Human Rights, and of the Rule of Law", "we should find a base on how to deal with the (Monitoring) system more rapidly"', she stressed.

    - "Sometimes it's very difficult to combine Transparency and Effectivenes together, particularly in this specific case", she went on to say. But, "I have not found a (CoE Member) Country who could be insensitive in this sens", Halonen answered concerning grave Human Rights violations attested by the ECHR.

    - "I have no ready-made answer. I have the expectations that you, in the CoE, will, step by step, find the different types of the monitoring systems."

    Also "because this is a part of the UN's Post-Conflict system, (fex. when it comes to Cyprus' MISSING persons), and it's a more Global system". So that, "If we make a succes in Europe, the others will follow", throughout the World.  "But they expect that we (Europe) are this opportunity, this Opportunity to make a Succes", Halonen concluded.

    In addition, she advised to extend CoE's Monitoring to all its 47 Member States, "because, as long as we hear that, all these monitoring systems are "OK for the neighbor, but not for me", "it's very difficult" to understand. Something which could make easier to Compare...

    Finnish MEP Jaako Laakso, former CoE Rapporteur on the Occupied Territories of Cyprus and one of the 5 Signatories of the Historic CoE's call to create the "MONITORING" mecanism since 1996, was more specific :  - "We (CoE Assembly) have to find a way for the issue of Cyprus' MISSING People to be better followed", he stressed, anouncing his intention to "speak to Mr. Holovaty" about that. "There might be also other ways", added Laakso.

    - The 2008 "Year had been a very Bad one for Turkey with regard to Human Rights in general, and Freedom of Expression in particular", denounced, meanwhile, Holovaty's preliminary Post-Monitoringh Draft Report by Holovaty, published by the CoE on April 2009.

    "Amnesty International believes that freedom of expression is not guaranteed given the various articles of the Criminal Code that restrict it. .. "For example, 1,300 Websites are said to have been closed down by the (Turkish) authorities in 2008" ! While "the new Turkish Criminal Code was used to bring a total of 1,072 proceedings between June 2005 and April 2008, and led to the conviction of 192 people", for expressing views. "Representatives of the Özgür Gündem newspaper, which specialises in Kurdish affairs, ..complained about Numerous Attacks on their Freedom of Expression ...as was everyone who advocated a settlement to the question by means other than the intervention of the army" "According to their figures, 19 Newspapers had been suspended 43 times between 4 August 2006 and 4 November 2008" !...

    Moreover, on 2008,  CoE's "Ministers adopted its 4rth Resolution on the execution of the judgments of the ECHR, ...and outstanding issues regarding 175 Judgements and decisions relating to Turkey delivered between 1996 and 2008...  concerning Deaths resulting from the excessive use of force by members of the Security forces, the failure to protect the right to life, the DIisappearance and/or death of individuals, Ill-Treatment and the Destruction of property". CoE's " Ministers urged the Turkish authorities ...to ensure that members of Security forces of all ranks can be prosecuted without administrative
authorisation" for "serious crimes". Holovaty reminded.

"Nonetheless", Holovaty heard anew of "Several cases of Violence committed last year (2008) by the (Turkish) security forces". Amnesty International speaks of Many Cases of ill-treatment and Torture in the prisons and by the police". "Including, fex."'the death of Engin Ceber, a young man of 29 who died on October 2008 as a result of the TORTURE allegedly inflicted on him by police officers, prison staff and members of the gendarmerie. He was part of a group of people arrested on September 2008 during a demonstration and Press Conference in Istanbul'. Proceedings against suspects are "on-going" in this case.

- " I therefore noted an Obvious Contradiction between the Government’s stated “zero tolerance” policy.... of Torture and other forms of ill-treatment, and the different testimonies given", denounced CoE's Rapporteur.  Turkish "authorities must make considerable efforts to guarantee that proper investigations are carried out into allegations of abuses by members of the security forces and that perpetrators are effectively punished" "In this respect, I have requested detailed Statistics on the number of Investigations, acquittals and convictions in cases involving allegations of abuse in order to show the positive impact of the measures taken to date", Holovaty said, repeating a permanently unsatisfied CoE's demand to Turkey since a Decade...

    - "The Political Crisis that shook the country in the spring of 2008 highlighted the Weaknesses of the (Turkish) Constitution", which comes from the Military regime of 1982, "and the Urgent Need of Reforms", stressed from the outset CoE's Rapporteur in 2009. In particular, "the ...Democratic functioning of state institutions, including the independence of the judicial system, are crucial", he observes.

    But, "the Electoral  system and the ways in which it is circumvented do not appear to give those elected complete Legitimacy, and tend to pervert the course of direct universal suffrage", denounces Holovaty, observing that, even 5 Years later, Turkey did not yet change the 10% nationwide Threshold for a party to take any seat, which is "far higher" than the "3%" maximum in Europe and already condemned as contrary to European Standards by the CoE.

    + Moreover, EU Parliament's 2009 Report on Turkey, drafted by Dutch MEP Ria Oomen-Ruijten and adopted in Strasbourg on March, expresses "Concern over the Failure of the (Turkish) Judiciary to prosecute cases of Torture and Ill-treatment, the Number of which is Growing". EU also "is concerned about continuing Hostility and Violence against Minorities" in Turkey. It also "calls on the Turkish Government to launch, as a matter of Priority, a Political Initiatve favouring a lasting Settlement of the Kurdish issue, (while "condemning violence.. and terrorist groups"). EU "regrets that No progress has been made on establishing full, systematic Civilian suprevisory functions over the (Turkish) Military".

    The final results of Holovaty's 2nd and last visit to Turkley will be known later this year, and, at any case, before EU's December 2009 Summit.

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