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Inicio arrow newsitems arrow CFE Council/Commission/Parliament Chairs on EF's Dialogue with Citizens on Acts: Debate or Muzzle ?

CFE Council/Commission/Parliament Chairs on EF's Dialogue with Citizens on Acts: Debate or Muzzle ?

Escrito por ACM
23.10.21
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*Strasbourg/EU Parliament/Angelo Marcopolo/- For the 1st Time reacting All Together to EU Citizens' initial Proposals, in the Conference on Europe's Future, the 3 Co-Chairs, Top Representatives of EU Council, Commission and Parliament, (Dovzan, Suica and Verhofstadt), in a Joint Press Conference at EU Parliament in Strasbourg,

Replying to a relevant "Eurofora"s Question on the Eventual Creation of fully-fledged Citizens' new "Right to Dialogue" with EU Decision-Makers, Before Measures Affecting their Lives and/or Society,

=> Welcomed, in Principle, "New Creativity" from EU Citizens, just After Warning for "Intensified" Moves asap, and/or suggested "to Put it into" Public "Debate(s)", in order "To See the Outcome".

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* -Eurofora" observed from the outset: : - "All of you Three, Stressed the Role of Citizens in the EU Decision-Making process : EU Commission's vice-President Suica speaking about an eventual role in the "Drafing" of EU Measures : EU Parliament's Coordinator, Vehofstadt, speaking about a "Permanent" dimension, in one way or another, and the EU Council's President-in-office, Slovenian Minister of European affairs, Dovzan, speaking about "Diversity".

=> But, Do you think that European People could legitimately Dream to join all the 3 points that You evoked, and More, in ordert to Invent a Mechanism of a kind of soft buit real "Dialogue" Between EU Citizens and EU Decision-Makers, Before important Decisions Affecting their Lives and/or Society at large, (naturaly in an Adequate way, Protecting the Efficiency of EU Decision-Making, whenever necessary) ?

Such a Proposal has Already been Registered at the Official Internet Platform of the Conference on Europe's Future on 2021 (Since the Day of CFE's 1st Plenary: http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/euroforaprojectpublishedateuconference.html , at: https://futureu.europa.eu/processes/Democracy/f/6/proposals/32770 ), and, among others, has been Endorsed Also by a 2 Days-Long Public Conference of Citizens organized by the Euro-Metropole of Strasbourg, (in the framework of French President Macron's "Great Debate" 2019, as well as Included in the relevant Official Report to the French Government : See http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/euroforaideasendorsedbystrasbourggreatdebate.html, etc), its Key Parts were Backed "also Elsewhere", f.ex. in Two 2021 Resolutions Adopted by EU Parliament (See: http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/euparliamentoneuroforaproject.html), after CoE's Assembly (See: ..), and Discussed with Many EU or CoE Top Officials, (while it's even known that, according to Philosopher Platon, describing his famous "Socratic Dialogues", it's the Best Instrument for Finding the Truth).... There are Legal Tools, in this direction, in most EU Member States, and some Relevant Elements even in the existing EU "Lisbon" Treaty", we reminded, (See: http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/euparliamentonombudsmanandeurofora.html, etc, in relation to which We Positively Discussed "Eurofora"s Project with EU Ombudswoman Emily O'Reilly and French President Emmanuel Macron, who Both Encouraged it : http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/euombudsmanoneurofforaproject.html + http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/macronforcitizensdebatesalsoafter2019.html, etc.).

Inter alia, "Eurofora" has Also, more or less Discussed that Project with a lot of Key EU or CoE Top Politicians, during Many Years, including, practicaly including All EU Parliament's Presidents, as the current, David Sassoli, etc., both in Brussels and in Strasbourg, (See, f.ex. : http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/euparliamentpresidentforstrongcitizenvoices.html + http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/euparliamentoncitizensforeufuture.html).

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**=> EUCouncil President in Office, Slovenian Minister of European affairs, Dovzan's reply, to "Eurofora"'s Question pppeared quite Dynamic, (particularly at its Concluding Suggestion) : 

"I think that EU is a Multi-Level Governance System, at a Local, Regional, National, and Supra-National levels, and in All Levels we have to Invest Efforts.

But in the EU Level, we have also a multiLingual Platform System, that Allows us to Integrate Ideas.

The (EU) Commission also has a practice to Discuss Ideas and the new Legislation proposed, with Stake-Holders and, let's say : Citizens.

But, We (CFE) can also put it on a Debate,  and We shall See what the Final Outcome would be"...

=> There are, Certainly, Ways to Improve the Existing Mechanisms, that we (EU) Already have".

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*** Surprisingly,  EUCommission Vice-President, in charge of Democracy, Suica's reply to "Eurofora" was quite Different:

- "We caN't preempt the Conclusions : As we said, We are Trying to Listen, to See what Citizens Ask from Us".

-"But, Also, as Mr Dovzan said, the EU Commission has Mechanisms, we have like "Citizens' Initiative", or "Have Your Say", different "Public Consultations", (etc),

- "So that "We are in Constant Dialogue with Citizens", she Claimed.

+ "Our MEPs are Also in Dialogue with their Constituents, also National Parliamentarians", etc. So, we have Contacts'.

=> "But, Now, we are Trying to EmPower outselves with the Ideas, the New Creativity of our Citizens. This is something Completely New".

- "But, Let's See What the End of these Deliberations show", (she apparently Reserved her Final appreciation for Later-on).

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But if some had, eventualy, made Sucia claim that "Eurofora"s Project would not bring something realy New for Citizens' Rights, then, such a Misundesrstanding would be a series of Blatant Errors !

- First of all, Obviously, "Have Your Say", and "Citizens' Consultations", are Mere "Consultations", and Not at all a Real "Dialogue" !

F.ex., inter alia, they doN't include at all any EU Citizens' Right to ask a Judge to Control whether EU Commission really Replied to All their legitimate Critical Observations, if it did so Sufficiently, based on Real Facts, and/or Valid Legal Arguments, concerning a Proportionate Measure, aiming to reach a Legal Aim of General Interest, Oherwise Cancelling it, if it did Not. (While, on the Contrary, in accordance with "Eurofora"s published Proposal, An Affected EU Citizen would have been given such a Right to immediately Trigger such a Judicial Control, on any or All of those 7 Points)...

+ As for the UnFortunate "Citizens' Initiative", foreseen by EU's Lisbon Treaty, But Notoriously "Killed", in real Practice, until now, by an Excessively Restrictive and Heavy Reglementation by EU Commission, (initialy endorsed by a Majority in an Old EU Parliament, in the Past), ..

>>> Indeed, those EU Commission's Excessively Heavy PreConditions agains the ECI, had More Bureaucratic Obstacles than ...the Dust from a Big Icelandish Volcano which had Notoriously Downed almost all European Airplanes, by a Coincidence, that Same Day of 2010, (as "Eurofora" Timely and systematicaly had Reminded in All Questions we raised, then, to All Press-Conferences organized by EU Parliament's Political Parties :See ... + http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/lellouchvolcanoashclouds.html + ... , etc) !

Only an Original, Ground-Braking Cooperation between EU Citizens and MEPs, (practicaly giving to the latter a still Lacking "Legislative Initiative"), as Proposed by "Eurofora" already since 2020, (See: http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/mepdurandeuroforaonfutureconf.html + http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/mepdurandeuroforaonfutureconf.html, etc), might Help Bypass the current Deadlock of ECI.

=> The Inevitable Consequence was to Practicaly Undermine that "Citizens' Initiative" tool of Lisbon Treaty, Resulting in a Spectacular Deadlock, Often Denounced by Many People and EU Politicians, until recently, to the poin that such a Scandalous situation made Even the EU Parliament itself to lately Ask on 2021 for a Necessary Change, in order to Make, at last, the ECI more Accessible to real Citizens' concerns in the foreseable Future, (See : http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/euparliamentoneuroforaproject.html , etc)...

But, Until Now, the Only attempt to Ameliorate, a Little bit, that "Citizens' Initiative"'s Scandalously Restrictive regime, was a Concrete Proposal, (initialy made by "Eurofora"s co-Founder, to EU Parliament's Historic Rapporteur on that issue, French MEP and former EU Affairs Minister, Alain Lamassure, who had Accepted to finaly include it in his Draft Report then), to, at least, let the Authors Participate in a Debate with MEPs inside EU Parliament, (which does Not engage them in Anything, remaining a Simply "Moral" or Symbolic move, withOut Any Legislative or Other Consequence, at least for the Time being)... [See f.ex. Lamassoure's and EU Commissioner Cefcovic's relevant Replies to "Eurofora"s Questions at the Key Press-Conference on ECI's imminent, then, creation, Back on 2010, at : http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/debatesincitizensinitiatives.html ].

=> Therefore, many converging Crystal-clear and Verifiable Facts prove that, Obviously, Miss Suica's "Experts" on such kind of Issues, Failed her, and MisLed her too much, with False Appearances and Blatant Erroneous and Unsubstantiated Claims about a so-called "pre-existing" EU Citizens' Right of "Dialogue" with EU Decision-Makers Before Decisions affecting their Lives or Society (Comp. Supra), which, in fact, does Not Exist yet...

>>>  Such a Misunderstanding would, indeed, be considered as an illegal act, due to be Cancelled by a Judge, according to "Eurofora"s proposed Legal Mechanism, for at least ... Five (5) Reasons :

 (1)"InSufficient Motivation" : It doesN't take into account the Fact that Individual EU Citizens and Groups of Less than 1 Million (sic !), or Not meeting those Numerous Bureaucratic Conditions imposed by Brussels, (Comp. Supra), do Not have Yet, Nowadays, the Rights that "Eurofora"s Project would give them, for the 1st Time. (In this regard, the Blatant Censorship of "Eurofora"s registered Proposal, at those "Reports" prepared by some Anonymous Bureaucrats Misrepresenting what Really Exists in CoFoE's Web Platform - Contrary to Explicit Links at Many Other, even Caricatural, Hasty claims- speaks for itself for a blatant Discrimination by some, apparently AFraid of Ideas able to Bring Real and Far-Reaching Modern Democratic Changes)...

 (2) "Non-Existent Fact" : Neither "Have your Say", "Consultations", nor "ECI", do Not include EU Institutions' Obligation to give to the Affected Citizens a full and Sufficient Motivation Justifying Why they might Refuse to Stop a planned Measure, by Replying, point by point, to All Citizens' relevant Arguments and Facts, cited in Support of their Opposition, (Contrary to what Suica's above-mentioned Claim obviously implies).

 (3)"Legal Error" : Nothing in "Have Your Say", "Consultations", or "ECI" does Not Give, to each EU Citizen Affected by a planned EU Measure, a Legal Right Equal to that proposed by "Eurofora"s Project, (placed under the Control of a Judge, able to Cancel such an EU Institution's Act, for having followed an Irregular Process of Decision-Making).

 (4) Neither a "Prportionality" Control, Nor for an eventual "Obvious Error of Appreciation", do Not Accompagny Miss Suica's cases of Simple "Consultations", "Have your Say", or "ECI" pre-existing Old Tools, while, on the Contrary, Judges usually Check such Issues in the cases concerned by "Eurofora" Project's Judicial Control of Public Administration Acts... (See, f.ex, "Eurofora" co-Founder's more than 1.000 pages relevant Original Legal Research on Comparative Law, proposed by Strasbourg's Faculty of Law for a Prize awarded to PhD Thesis, after a written proposal by Paris II University Professor Paul Amselek).

 (5) "Detournement de Pouvoir" (French Legal term) : By Falsely Claiming that "Eurofora"s Project would Not Bring Anything really New (sic !), in fact, such a Misconception looks as an Attempt to Muzzle, on the Contrary, a very Far-Reaching Proposal, considerably Strengthening EU Citizens' Democratic Rights in Modern Society...

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>>> At any case, if there might be any kind of Doubt to anyone involved, Why Not Follow the Advise just Given by EU Council's President-in-office, European Affairs Minister Gasper Dovzan, in Conclusion of his Interesting Reply, against any eventual Attempt to Muzzle "Eurofora"'s above-mentioned Query, about the Creation of a brand New EU Citizens' Right to such a "Dialogue": 

- I.e. to Simply Launch a specific EU "Debate" on that Issue, "and See What the Final Outcome would be" (Comp. Supra) ? 

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cfe__euparliaments_coordinator_verhofstadt_in_press_conf_on_plenary_by_3_chairs_eurofora_400

+ By the way, didn't EU Parliament's Coordinator on CFE, Guy Verhofstadt, just Stress, shortly Earlier, that he Expects for Action around EU Citizens' Proposals, (as Also that of "Eurofora"), to Soon "Intensify", during the Next few Months ?...

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cfe_2nd_plenary_debate_on_citizens_web_platform_ideas_eurofora_400

=> The overall and Sharp Tone of Several "Hot" Interventions, by Various Actors, (Participating Citizens' Ambassadors, MEPs, NGOs, Local-Regional Representatives, Social Partners, etc) during Today's Afternoon 2nd Plenary of the CFE, dealing with Citizens' Ideas at the Web Platform, (i.e. Including that of "Eurofora"s registered Proposal, with More than 750 Followers), gave a Vivid Impression that Many European People really Wished a Change towards such Novel and Modern Democratic Tools, in EU-Citizens relations Nowadays !

 

(../..)

 

("Draft-News")

 

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They voted to "freeze" UK Government's draft to put People in jail for 42 Days on "anti-terrorist" suspicion without charge, or they abstained. Don't they look suspect ?
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CoE's debate on UK controversy stirs PanEuropean check of anti-terror suspects' imprisonment

Former Leftists of the Sixties would boil in hot water if they heard PACE's debate on the controversial 42 days detention without charge, currently drafted by the British Government :

A "Socialist" Government, a Socialist PACE Rapporteur and a Socialist Chair of PACE's Legal Committee, opposed a .. "Conservative" amendment (supported by .. Liberals, Democrats, etc), to freeze the measure, in order to protect Citizens' Freedom, by "waiting" until CoE's Venice Committee checks its conformity with Human Rights' principles.

"Left"'s support to Conservative-Lib.Dem's criticism, wasn't enough to obtain a majority, nor to make things as they were back in the good old days, when "Left" and "Right" had a clear meaning, as "liberty" and "restrictions"...

Conservatives and most Democrats were joined by the Left in voting for the "freeze", as well as Liberal Paul Rowen, while Socialist MEP Ivan Popescu, an experienced MEP from Ukraine (PACE Member since 1996-2008) abstained. But most Socialists, added to a few Liberals and EPP's Right, voted against.

Fortunately, someone inside PACE had the wise idea to shorten the Debate for less than 1 Hour, and put it on the Agenda only at the end of an exceptionally busy day, towards the end of the Evening, when most MEPs had already gone to taste wins and foods at various Receptions all around Strasbourg's "European" area : As a result, not even 42 MEPs weren't present..

Socialist Lord Tomlinson accused the leaders of the PanEuropean Assembly, in its highest body : the "Bureau", to "lack wisdom" by deciding to hold a Debate on an issue that neither the Socialist Chair of the Legal Committee, nor its Socialist "reluctant Rapporteur", did "not want to do", ...

tomllinson

Finally, everybody (critics and supporters alike) was happy to agree, in substance, that the controversial measure "may" gravely violate Human Rights, and therefore, PACE asked Legal Experts of Venice Commission to check UK Government''s plans.

But this might take more than .. 42 Days to do, since PACE's Rapporteur asked the Experts to enlarge their study in a PanEuropean comparison of all that is happening on "anti-terrorism" legislation in 47 CoE Member Countries, including Russia, Turkey and Azerbaidjan..

Bad lack : "The existing 28 days’ detention without charge in the UK is, in comparison with other CoE member countries, one of the most extreme : In Turkey, the period is 7,5 days, in France 6 days, in Russia 5 days, and in .. the U.S. and Canada just 2 and 1 days respectively", denounced Democrat MEP Ms WOLDSETH from Norway..

woldsteth

"Numerous respected human rights organisations, including Liberty and Human Rights Watch, have expressed serious concern" "The proposed legislation ...could easily lead to extensive abuses. ...Detention for 42 days means six weeks in which one is taken away from one’s family, friends, home and livelihood only to be let off without being charged. That will destroy lives and isolate communities", she added.

- "3 years ago, the UK Government sought to increase the period of pre-charge detention from 14 days to 90 days. Not long before that, it had been only 7 days. There was a vigorous debate ...and a ...compromise was reached of 28 days. We have to ask whether there are proper safeguards in place to extend the period to 42 days. I suggest that there are fatal flaws", reminded British Conservative Clappison.

- "What sort of society holds someone in detention for 42 days and does not have to tell the person who is in prison why they are there, or explain the suspicions that arose and led to their detention? What sort of society believes that that is the way to treat its citizens? That is an appalling injustice, ...A 42-day detention period will not make the UK safer. Instead, it will be the first step to giving in to terrorists; it is saying that we are prepared to sacrifice our democratic rights and the principles for which we have stood for centuries", criticized British Liberal Michael Hanckock

hancock

"Comments made ...by Norwegian delegates are unfortunate", replied British Socialist MEP Ms.Curtis-Thomas, accusing them to "besmirch the reputation of our police force, which is one of the Best in the World", as she said, believing that "there are significant safeguards ...to ensure that individuals are not subjected to unlawful detention"

curtis

PACE "has serious doubts whether ...the draft legislation are in conformity with the ...case-law of the European Court of Human Rights. A lack of ..safeguards may lead to arbitrariness, resulting in breaches of ... liberty and ...right to a fair trial". PACE "is particularly concerned that: ..the judge ..may not be in a position to examine whether there exist reasonable grounds for suspecting that the arrested person has committed an offence;"; that "... representation by a lawyer may be inappropriately restricted or delayed;" that "information on the grounds for suspicion of a person ...may be unduly withheld.. ;" that this "may give rise to arrests without the intention to charge;", and; in general, that "prolonged detention without proper information on the grounds for arrest may constitute inhuman treatment", says Klaus De Vries' Report, adopted with 29 votes against zero.

vries

Records don't say if it took him 42 Days to draft his Report, but, at least, he knew why...

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2009 EU Elections were won by Parties against Technocracy and Turkey's controversial EU bid, while the 1999-2004 Majority Abstention trend decelerated. What should be done in 2009-2014 ?

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