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Home arrow newsitems arrow CFE Council/Commission/Parliament Chairs on EF's Dialogue with Citizens on Acts: Debate or Muzzle ?

CFE Council/Commission/Parliament Chairs on EF's Dialogue with Citizens on Acts: Debate or Muzzle ?

Pisac ACM
23. 10. 2021.
cfe_plenary_joint_press_conf._by_3_cochairs_councilparliamentcommission_23_oct_2021_eurofora_400

*Strasbourg/EU Parliament/Angelo Marcopolo/- For the 1st Time reacting All Together to EU Citizens' initial Proposals, in the Conference on Europe's Future, the 3 Co-Chairs, Top Representatives of EU Council, Commission and Parliament, (Dovzan, Suica and Verhofstadt), in a Joint Press Conference at EU Parliament in Strasbourg,

Replying to a relevant "Eurofora"s Question on the Eventual Creation of fully-fledged Citizens' new "Right to Dialogue" with EU Decision-Makers, Before Measures Affecting their Lives and/or Society,

=> Welcomed, in Principle, "New Creativity" from EU Citizens, just After Warning for "Intensified" Moves asap, and/or suggested "to Put it into" Public "Debate(s)", in order "To See the Outcome".

----------------------

eu_parliaments_official_entrance_23_oct._2021_eurofora_400

* -Eurofora" observed from the outset: : - "All of you Three, Stressed the Role of Citizens in the EU Decision-Making process : EU Commission's vice-President Suica speaking about an eventual role in the "Drafing" of EU Measures : EU Parliament's Coordinator, Vehofstadt, speaking about a "Permanent" dimension, in one way or another, and the EU Council's President-in-office, Slovenian Minister of European affairs, Dovzan, speaking about "Diversity".

=> But, Do you think that European People could legitimately Dream to join all the 3 points that You evoked, and More, in ordert to Invent a Mechanism of a kind of soft buit real "Dialogue" Between EU Citizens and EU Decision-Makers, Before important Decisions Affecting their Lives and/or Society at large, (naturaly in an Adequate way, Protecting the Efficiency of EU Decision-Making, whenever necessary) ?

Such a Proposal has Already been Registered at the Official Internet Platform of the Conference on Europe's Future on 2021 (Since the Day of CFE's 1st Plenary: http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/euroforaprojectpublishedateuconference.html , at: https://futureu.europa.eu/processes/Democracy/f/6/proposals/32770 ), and, among others, has been Endorsed Also by a 2 Days-Long Public Conference of Citizens organized by the Euro-Metropole of Strasbourg, (in the framework of French President Macron's "Great Debate" 2019, as well as Included in the relevant Official Report to the French Government : See http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/euroforaideasendorsedbystrasbourggreatdebate.html, etc), its Key Parts were Backed "also Elsewhere", f.ex. in Two 2021 Resolutions Adopted by EU Parliament (See: http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/euparliamentoneuroforaproject.html), after CoE's Assembly (See: ..), and Discussed with Many EU or CoE Top Officials, (while it's even known that, according to Philosopher Platon, describing his famous "Socratic Dialogues", it's the Best Instrument for Finding the Truth).... There are Legal Tools, in this direction, in most EU Member States, and some Relevant Elements even in the existing EU "Lisbon" Treaty", we reminded, (See: http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/euparliamentonombudsmanandeurofora.html, etc, in relation to which We Positively Discussed "Eurofora"s Project with EU Ombudswoman Emily O'Reilly and French President Emmanuel Macron, who Both Encouraged it : http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/euombudsmanoneurofforaproject.html + http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/macronforcitizensdebatesalsoafter2019.html, etc.).

Inter alia, "Eurofora" has Also, more or less Discussed that Project with a lot of Key EU or CoE Top Politicians, during Many Years, including, practicaly including All EU Parliament's Presidents, as the current, David Sassoli, etc., both in Brussels and in Strasbourg, (See, f.ex. : http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/euparliamentpresidentforstrongcitizenvoices.html + http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/euparliamentoncitizensforeufuture.html).

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cfe__eucouncil_president_in_office_slovenian_ministerfor_european_affairs_dovzan_reply_to_agg_eurofora_400

**=> EUCouncil President in Office, Slovenian Minister of European affairs, Dovzan's reply, to "Eurofora"'s Question pppeared quite Dynamic, (particularly at its Concluding Suggestion) : 

"I think that EU is a Multi-Level Governance System, at a Local, Regional, National, and Supra-National levels, and in All Levels we have to Invest Efforts.

But in the EU Level, we have also a multiLingual Platform System, that Allows us to Integrate Ideas.

The (EU) Commission also has a practice to Discuss Ideas and the new Legislation proposed, with Stake-Holders and, let's say : Citizens.

But, We (CFE) can also put it on a Debate,  and We shall See what the Final Outcome would be"...

=> There are, Certainly, Ways to Improve the Existing Mechanisms, that we (EU) Already have".

------------------------------------

 

cfe_press_conf.__eucom_vpres_suica_reply_to_agg_quest_23_oct_2021_eurofora_400

*** Surprisingly,  EUCommission Vice-President, in charge of Democracy, Suica's reply to "Eurofora" was quite Different:

- "We caN't preempt the Conclusions : As we said, We are Trying to Listen, to See what Citizens Ask from Us".

-"But, Also, as Mr Dovzan said, the EU Commission has Mechanisms, we have like "Citizens' Initiative", or "Have Your Say", different "Public Consultations", (etc),

- "So that "We are in Constant Dialogue with Citizens", she Claimed.

+ "Our MEPs are Also in Dialogue with their Constituents, also National Parliamentarians", etc. So, we have Contacts'.

=> "But, Now, we are Trying to EmPower outselves with the Ideas, the New Creativity of our Citizens. This is something Completely New".

- "But, Let's See What the End of these Deliberations show", (she apparently Reserved her Final appreciation for Later-on).

--------------------------------------------------

But if some had, eventualy, made Sucia claim that "Eurofora"s Project would not bring something realy New for Citizens' Rights, then, such a Misundesrstanding would be a series of Blatant Errors !

- First of all, Obviously, "Have Your Say", and "Citizens' Consultations", are Mere "Consultations", and Not at all a Real "Dialogue" !

F.ex., inter alia, they doN't include at all any EU Citizens' Right to ask a Judge to Control whether EU Commission really Replied to All their legitimate Critical Observations, if it did so Sufficiently, based on Real Facts, and/or Valid Legal Arguments, concerning a Proportionate Measure, aiming to reach a Legal Aim of General Interest, Oherwise Cancelling it, if it did Not. (While, on the Contrary, in accordance with "Eurofora"s published Proposal, An Affected EU Citizen would have been given such a Right to immediately Trigger such a Judicial Control, on any or All of those 7 Points)...

+ As for the UnFortunate "Citizens' Initiative", foreseen by EU's Lisbon Treaty, But Notoriously "Killed", in real Practice, until now, by an Excessively Restrictive and Heavy Reglementation by EU Commission, (initialy endorsed by a Majority in an Old EU Parliament, in the Past), ..

>>> Indeed, those EU Commission's Excessively Heavy PreConditions agains the ECI, had More Bureaucratic Obstacles than ...the Dust from a Big Icelandish Volcano which had Notoriously Downed almost all European Airplanes, by a Coincidence, that Same Day of 2010, (as "Eurofora" Timely and systematicaly had Reminded in All Questions we raised, then, to All Press-Conferences organized by EU Parliament's Political Parties :See ... + http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/lellouchvolcanoashclouds.html + ... , etc) !

Only an Original, Ground-Braking Cooperation between EU Citizens and MEPs, (practicaly giving to the latter a still Lacking "Legislative Initiative"), as Proposed by "Eurofora" already since 2020, (See: http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/mepdurandeuroforaonfutureconf.html + http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/mepdurandeuroforaonfutureconf.html, etc), might Help Bypass the current Deadlock of ECI.

=> The Inevitable Consequence was to Practicaly Undermine that "Citizens' Initiative" tool of Lisbon Treaty, Resulting in a Spectacular Deadlock, Often Denounced by Many People and EU Politicians, until recently, to the poin that such a Scandalous situation made Even the EU Parliament itself to lately Ask on 2021 for a Necessary Change, in order to Make, at last, the ECI more Accessible to real Citizens' concerns in the foreseable Future, (See : http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/euparliamentoneuroforaproject.html , etc)...

But, Until Now, the Only attempt to Ameliorate, a Little bit, that "Citizens' Initiative"'s Scandalously Restrictive regime, was a Concrete Proposal, (initialy made by "Eurofora"s co-Founder, to EU Parliament's Historic Rapporteur on that issue, French MEP and former EU Affairs Minister, Alain Lamassure, who had Accepted to finaly include it in his Draft Report then), to, at least, let the Authors Participate in a Debate with MEPs inside EU Parliament, (which does Not engage them in Anything, remaining a Simply "Moral" or Symbolic move, withOut Any Legislative or Other Consequence, at least for the Time being)... [See f.ex. Lamassoure's and EU Commissioner Cefcovic's relevant Replies to "Eurofora"s Questions at the Key Press-Conference on ECI's imminent, then, creation, Back on 2010, at : http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/debatesincitizensinitiatives.html ].

=> Therefore, many converging Crystal-clear and Verifiable Facts prove that, Obviously, Miss Suica's "Experts" on such kind of Issues, Failed her, and MisLed her too much, with False Appearances and Blatant Erroneous and Unsubstantiated Claims about a so-called "pre-existing" EU Citizens' Right of "Dialogue" with EU Decision-Makers Before Decisions affecting their Lives or Society (Comp. Supra), which, in fact, does Not Exist yet...

>>>  Such a Misunderstanding would, indeed, be considered as an illegal act, due to be Cancelled by a Judge, according to "Eurofora"s proposed Legal Mechanism, for at least ... Five (5) Reasons :

 (1)"InSufficient Motivation" : It doesN't take into account the Fact that Individual EU Citizens and Groups of Less than 1 Million (sic !), or Not meeting those Numerous Bureaucratic Conditions imposed by Brussels, (Comp. Supra), do Not have Yet, Nowadays, the Rights that "Eurofora"s Project would give them, for the 1st Time. (In this regard, the Blatant Censorship of "Eurofora"s registered Proposal, at those "Reports" prepared by some Anonymous Bureaucrats Misrepresenting what Really Exists in CoFoE's Web Platform - Contrary to Explicit Links at Many Other, even Caricatural, Hasty claims- speaks for itself for a blatant Discrimination by some, apparently AFraid of Ideas able to Bring Real and Far-Reaching Modern Democratic Changes)...

 (2) "Non-Existent Fact" : Neither "Have your Say", "Consultations", nor "ECI", do Not include EU Institutions' Obligation to give to the Affected Citizens a full and Sufficient Motivation Justifying Why they might Refuse to Stop a planned Measure, by Replying, point by point, to All Citizens' relevant Arguments and Facts, cited in Support of their Opposition, (Contrary to what Suica's above-mentioned Claim obviously implies).

 (3)"Legal Error" : Nothing in "Have Your Say", "Consultations", or "ECI" does Not Give, to each EU Citizen Affected by a planned EU Measure, a Legal Right Equal to that proposed by "Eurofora"s Project, (placed under the Control of a Judge, able to Cancel such an EU Institution's Act, for having followed an Irregular Process of Decision-Making).

 (4) Neither a "Prportionality" Control, Nor for an eventual "Obvious Error of Appreciation", do Not Accompagny Miss Suica's cases of Simple "Consultations", "Have your Say", or "ECI" pre-existing Old Tools, while, on the Contrary, Judges usually Check such Issues in the cases concerned by "Eurofora" Project's Judicial Control of Public Administration Acts... (See, f.ex, "Eurofora" co-Founder's more than 1.000 pages relevant Original Legal Research on Comparative Law, proposed by Strasbourg's Faculty of Law for a Prize awarded to PhD Thesis, after a written proposal by Paris II University Professor Paul Amselek).

 (5) "Detournement de Pouvoir" (French Legal term) : By Falsely Claiming that "Eurofora"s Project would Not Bring Anything really New (sic !), in fact, such a Misconception looks as an Attempt to Muzzle, on the Contrary, a very Far-Reaching Proposal, considerably Strengthening EU Citizens' Democratic Rights in Modern Society...

-------------------

>>> At any case, if there might be any kind of Doubt to anyone involved, Why Not Follow the Advise just Given by EU Council's President-in-office, European Affairs Minister Gasper Dovzan, in Conclusion of his Interesting Reply, against any eventual Attempt to Muzzle "Eurofora"'s above-mentioned Query, about the Creation of a brand New EU Citizens' Right to such a "Dialogue": 

- I.e. to Simply Launch a specific EU "Debate" on that Issue, "and See What the Final Outcome would be" (Comp. Supra) ? 

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cfe__euparliaments_coordinator_verhofstadt_in_press_conf_on_plenary_by_3_chairs_eurofora_400

+ By the way, didn't EU Parliament's Coordinator on CFE, Guy Verhofstadt, just Stress, shortly Earlier, that he Expects for Action around EU Citizens' Proposals, (as Also that of "Eurofora"), to Soon "Intensify", during the Next few Months ?...

---------------------------------------

 

cfe_2nd_plenary_debate_on_citizens_web_platform_ideas_eurofora_400

=> The overall and Sharp Tone of Several "Hot" Interventions, by Various Actors, (Participating Citizens' Ambassadors, MEPs, NGOs, Local-Regional Representatives, Social Partners, etc) during Today's Afternoon 2nd Plenary of the CFE, dealing with Citizens' Ideas at the Web Platform, (i.e. Including that of "Eurofora"s registered Proposal, with More than 750 Followers), gave a Vivid Impression that Many European People really Wished a Change towards such Novel and Modern Democratic Tools, in EU-Citizens relations Nowadays !

 

(../..)

 

("Draft-News")

 

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 politkovskaya_gongadze_adali_400

Hu Jia's prize brings SAKHAROV's wife to "EuroFora" on murders of Journalists Politkofskaya, Gongadze and Adali :

- Elena Bonner : "All Journalists' murders must be fully investigated", without Double Standards.                                                                                    

During a special Mega-Event to celebrate 20 Years of SAKHAROV Prize for "Freedom of Thought", attributed in 2008 by EU Parliament to jailed Chinese Cyber-Dissident Hu JIA, the move was reinforced by strongly criticizing the persisting impunity in three cases of Journalists' Murders, such as POLITKOVSKAYA in Russia, GONGADZE in Ukraine, and ADALI in Turkish-occupied part of Cyprus.

Any bureaucratic doubt about whether Cyber-dissidents like Hu JIA might have, or not, a right to be protected as all Journalists must be, particularly when they take risks to search, find and publish original and critical News on issues of general interest to the society, could not resist to the emotion provoked by the message of his Wife, Zeng JINYAN spectacularly transmitted at a big screen in EU Parliament's hemicycle :

- "The most important and most interesting thing he did was to ... say the Truth :.. to write about the phenomena he observed... He never stopped Publishing.. on websites, so that the Public could learn about the reality .. and understand it.  In my view, this has been his greatest contribution", stressed the young wife of the jailed man, eager to cite also the cases of other critical journalists who faced various kinds of "harassment".

 - "Welcoming all those who have suffered for defending Human Rights", EU Parliament's President, German MEP Hans Gert POETTERING, who had invited to Strasbourg all former Sakharov prize-winners from various Countries throughout the World, said that "China needs Europe, and Europe needs China : A great nation" with which "we want to have a good relationship", "association and ..friendship". "But we are never going to stop our fight for Human Rights, and No Government can expect this from us".

    - "It's impossible  to achieve goals of Peace, if Human Rights are left out. In fact, Peace and Human Rights are intrinsequaly linked", added POETTERING.

    It's in this spirit that MEPs adopted, on Thursday, a Resolution denouncing that "the criminal
investigation and trial following the murder of (a) Journalist ...raises serious concerns with regard to transparency and respect for the rule of law", when a "brutal killing has not yet been fully investigated and solved in a satisfactory way".

    The text refered to dissident Journalist "Anna POLITOVSKAYA", a critic of Tchechen conflict, killed some years ago in Moscow, where Russian Authorities have found, arrested and are currently judging two executants, while also searching to arrest also a 3rd one, allegedly escaped in Belgium. But they have not yet found the instigators.

     Similar texts were adopted recently also on dissident Ukranian Journalist Georgiy GONGADZE's murder, for which Ukranian Authorities have at least found, arrested and condemned 2 executants to 12 and 13 Years of jail, but not yet the instigators. For that purpose, they recently accepted an International Experts team to participate to the investigations.     

But, it's only for the Murder of dissident Turkish Cypriot Journalist ADALI, in the occupied territories of Cyprus, that Turkey has NOT yet found ANYONE responsible, and even claimed recently inside CoE that it would be "impossible" to do so !    

These astonishing differences exist despite the fact that ECHR condemned alike Ukraine and Turkey with 2 Judgements on the same year : 2005, for the murders of  Journalists GONGADZE and ADALI, strong critics of Corruption in Ukraine, and of Ankara's policies on mass-influx of Turkish Settlers in the Occupied Territories of Cyprus, respectively.    

Regarless of that, CoE's Committee of Ministers, who is entrusted with the duty to supervise execution of ECHR's judgements, has just asked Ukraine's Government to reply to further questions on Gongadze's murder before March 2009, while Turkey, curiously, got a longer postponement for answering questions on Adali's murder, until June...   

A comparison of these cases, raises serious questions about Double Standards :

------------------------

On TRANSPARENCY :
--------------------------
    On Gongadze's murder, CoE's body speaks even about the participation of
"an INTERNATIONAL group of Experts" in the Investigation, (f.ex. of "Tape Recordings"), accepted by Ukraine.
    On the contrary, on Adali's murder, CoE is obliged to repeatedly ask (for a 2nd
time) Turkey whether, at least, it informed the victims' Family, or not...
------------------------------
- On EFFICIENCY :
-----------------------
On Gongadze's murder, CoE formally "recalls that the Committee (of Ministers) ..URGED the Ukranian authorities.. to TAKE ALL NECESSARY INVESTIGATIVE STEPS TO ACHIEVE CONCRETE and VISIBLE RESULTS in the INVESTIGATION, aimed at the Identification of the INSTIGATORS and Organisers of the Murder", and "STRONGLY INVITED the Ukranian Authorities to provide information on the PROGRESS IN THE INVESTIGATION", before MARCH 2009.

But, on Adali's murder, on the contrary, CoE's body merely .. "took note" of the "arguments presented by" Cyprus, which denounce the absence of any proof of new "investigation" by Turkey. Following Turkey's own suggestion (!), it simply "noted" that there is "no limitation period" for "any new element" to "lead potentialy (sic !) to a Re-Opening of the Investigation". Without saying who might find any such "new" fact, since Turkey stoped searching... It also POSTPONED the issue until .. JUNE  !
-----------------------
 - On the PUNISHMENT OF THOSE RESPONSIBLE :
----------------------
 -  On Gongadze's murder case, Ukranian Authorities already arrested and condemned, at least 2 suspects, to 12 and 13 Years of jail. And on Politkovskaya's murder at least 2 suspects are judged, and a 3rd one "wanted".

On the contrary, on Adali's murder case, the Turkish authorities simply claim that "it had not been possible to obtain new .. information .. on the basis of which criminal charges could be brought against ANY person" !...

Moreover,  a LETTER sent by Turkey ...2 Years after CoE's 2006 call to re-investigate anew Adali's murder case, is totally EMPTY of Facts ! As Cypus' Delegation denounced earlier, Turkey's Letter ONLY CLAIMS that a "New Investigation" was made without any result, but does NOT even cite ANY FACT to prove it :

F.ex.,on the crucial issue of the "MOTIVATIONS" behind Adali's murder, noted by ECHR, Turkey MERELY CLAIMS that "all allegations  were investigated; without result", but OMITS ANY FACT TO PROVE IT !..(It doesn't even remind which were these "allegations").. .

+ On ECHR's astonishment that the Turkish Occupation regime didn't produce any "BALLISTIC REPORT" on the Shots which murdered Adali, Turkey again repeats, 12 years later, that, still, even until now, "it  was not possible to obtain the BalisticReport"...

- As for the astonishing absence of key-WITNESSES' Testimonies, denounced by ECHR, Turkey agains repeats various pretexts avoiding to reveal anything, (Fex. that a person "left" the Occupied Territories  "on 2002", or that another witness was heard, but without revealing nothing of what he said, etc).

Turkey obviously "FAILS TO MEET THE CRITICISM made BY THE COURT" for lack of any efficient Investigation in Adali's case, concluded Cyprus' Government.
---------------------------------------------
Replying to our Question which COMPARED these 3 outstanding cases of "JOURNALISTS MURDERS", Adali, Gongadze and Politkovskaya, in order to avoid "Double Standards" by asking from Ukraine and Russia more than what is asked EU candidate Turkey, many European personalities were critical /

They criticised Ankara's recent claim at the CoE to stop investigating, because it would be "impossible to find anyone" responsible for the 5 bullet shots which killed Kutlu ADALI in front of his Family Home, contrary to the other two Journalists' murders, where Ukraine and Russia at least arrested the executants, searching now for the instigators :
----------------------------------

imag0103_400

    - "Where was that ? In Turkish Occupied Cyprus ? WITHOUT ANY DOUBT : Any murder of Journalist should be investigated in full ! All these Murders must be investigated !", replied the famous SAKHAROV's wife, Elena BONNER to our question on Adali's case, compared to Gongadze and Politofskaya.

    Elena Bonner spoke us EXCLUSIVELY shortly after being honored by the President
of EU Parliament on the occasion of 20 Years of her husband's SAKHAROV Prize.

    A strong personality, Sakharov's wife even had to struggle against an anonymous EU staffer who, astonishingly, tried to stop her speaking when h heard our question on "Turkey" (!) : - "Please, let me translate, she continues
speaking, don't stop us !", had to cry Sakharov's daughter, (a Journalist
herself), who was translating her mothers' reply, (obliged to speak louder to
make her voice heard despite the harassment).. (= + Audio Proof !)

    Earlier, Elena Bonner also fustigated "Double Standards" at another case, on
Western countries' attitude vis a vis Kosovo and the Kurds : -F.ex. "You have
recognized a few 400.000 Kosovars as an "independent" country, but you still
deny that to 30 millions of Kurds in Turkey !", she denounced.
-----------------------------
    - "This (ADALI's murder) is an issue which should be pursued by the Committee
for Human Rights. That's why we have one, and it's its duty to examine cases of
Journalists' murders as the one you referred to. You should bring the case in
front of that Committee", suggested in reply to our question on Adali, EU
Parliament's President, German MEP Hans Gert POETTERING.

    - "It's impossible  to achieve goals of PEACE, if HUMAN RIGHTS are left out :
in fact, Peace and Human Rights are intrinsequaly linked", added POETTERING.
--------------------------------------
    + "For us (European/International Federation of Journalists) it's clear :
Whenever a Journalist is Murdered, the Investigation should continue until
those Responsible are found !", replied earlier to another question on ADALI
EFJ/IFJ's Secretary General, Aidan WHITE.

    Speaking as a matter of General Principle, White asked us for "concrete data"
on the execution of ECHR's judgement on Adali case, in order to "look at it in
depth" and "make a formal statement", in comparison with the other Murdered
Journalist case, also pending at CoE's  Ministers for completing its execution,
on Ukranian Gongadze.
----------------------------------------------------
     From EU Rapporteur on Human Rights, vice-President of EU Parliament Liberties' Committee, MEP Giusto CATANIA, we were told that, since there is an ECHR judgement in both Adali and Gongadge's cases, "Turkey must naturally execute the judgement and make a full and efficient investigation, until those responsible for the Journalist's murder are found and punished".

    Even if "we (Catania's "EuroLeft" Group) support Turkey's EU perspectives, this does not mean that Ankara should not behave properly. On the contrary, it means that they have to meet tough conditions, particularly on Human Rights", was added on the occasion of Adali's murder case.

    Moreover, "since you raise the issue of Mr. Adali's muder as a part of a Series of Journalist's murders, including fex. Gongadze, Politkovskaya, ao., tthen we (EU) could also act together with CoE's Commissioner on Human Rights, Thomas HAMMARBERG, it was suggested.

    - "We (EU) must step up efforts against the problem of IMPUNITY : Real Peace cannot exist without Justice",  stressed also this week at EU Parliament in Strasbourg, French Minister on Human Rights, Mrs Rama YADE.
------------------------
                     

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