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Accueil arrow newsitems arrow CFE Council/Commission/Parliament Chairs on EF's Dialogue with Citizens on Acts: Debate or Muzzle ?

CFE Council/Commission/Parliament Chairs on EF's Dialogue with Citizens on Acts: Debate or Muzzle ?

Ecrit par ACM
samedi, 23 octobre 2021
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*Strasbourg/EU Parliament/Angelo Marcopolo/- For the 1st Time reacting All Together to EU Citizens' initial Proposals, in the Conference on Europe's Future, the 3 Co-Chairs, Top Representatives of EU Council, Commission and Parliament, (Dovzan, Suica and Verhofstadt), in a Joint Press Conference at EU Parliament in Strasbourg,

Replying to a relevant "Eurofora"s Question on the Eventual Creation of fully-fledged Citizens' new "Right to Dialogue" with EU Decision-Makers, Before Measures Affecting their Lives and/or Society,

=> Welcomed, in Principle, "New Creativity" from EU Citizens, just After Warning for "Intensified" Moves asap, and/or suggested "to Put it into" Public "Debate(s)", in order "To See the Outcome".

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eu_parliaments_official_entrance_23_oct._2021_eurofora_400

* -Eurofora" observed from the outset: : - "All of you Three, Stressed the Role of Citizens in the EU Decision-Making process : EU Commission's vice-President Suica speaking about an eventual role in the "Drafing" of EU Measures : EU Parliament's Coordinator, Vehofstadt, speaking about a "Permanent" dimension, in one way or another, and the EU Council's President-in-office, Slovenian Minister of European affairs, Dovzan, speaking about "Diversity".

=> But, Do you think that European People could legitimately Dream to join all the 3 points that You evoked, and More, in ordert to Invent a Mechanism of a kind of soft buit real "Dialogue" Between EU Citizens and EU Decision-Makers, Before important Decisions Affecting their Lives and/or Society at large, (naturaly in an Adequate way, Protecting the Efficiency of EU Decision-Making, whenever necessary) ?

Such a Proposal has Already been Registered at the Official Internet Platform of the Conference on Europe's Future on 2021 (Since the Day of CFE's 1st Plenary: http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/euroforaprojectpublishedateuconference.html , at: https://futureu.europa.eu/processes/Democracy/f/6/proposals/32770 ), and, among others, has been Endorsed Also by a 2 Days-Long Public Conference of Citizens organized by the Euro-Metropole of Strasbourg, (in the framework of French President Macron's "Great Debate" 2019, as well as Included in the relevant Official Report to the French Government : See http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/euroforaideasendorsedbystrasbourggreatdebate.html, etc), its Key Parts were Backed "also Elsewhere", f.ex. in Two 2021 Resolutions Adopted by EU Parliament (See: http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/euparliamentoneuroforaproject.html), after CoE's Assembly (See: ..), and Discussed with Many EU or CoE Top Officials, (while it's even known that, according to Philosopher Platon, describing his famous "Socratic Dialogues", it's the Best Instrument for Finding the Truth).... There are Legal Tools, in this direction, in most EU Member States, and some Relevant Elements even in the existing EU "Lisbon" Treaty", we reminded, (See: http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/euparliamentonombudsmanandeurofora.html, etc, in relation to which We Positively Discussed "Eurofora"s Project with EU Ombudswoman Emily O'Reilly and French President Emmanuel Macron, who Both Encouraged it : http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/euombudsmanoneurofforaproject.html + http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/macronforcitizensdebatesalsoafter2019.html, etc.).

Inter alia, "Eurofora" has Also, more or less Discussed that Project with a lot of Key EU or CoE Top Politicians, during Many Years, including, practicaly including All EU Parliament's Presidents, as the current, David Sassoli, etc., both in Brussels and in Strasbourg, (See, f.ex. : http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/euparliamentpresidentforstrongcitizenvoices.html + http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/euparliamentoncitizensforeufuture.html).

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**=> EUCouncil President in Office, Slovenian Minister of European affairs, Dovzan's reply, to "Eurofora"'s Question pppeared quite Dynamic, (particularly at its Concluding Suggestion) : 

"I think that EU is a Multi-Level Governance System, at a Local, Regional, National, and Supra-National levels, and in All Levels we have to Invest Efforts.

But in the EU Level, we have also a multiLingual Platform System, that Allows us to Integrate Ideas.

The (EU) Commission also has a practice to Discuss Ideas and the new Legislation proposed, with Stake-Holders and, let's say : Citizens.

But, We (CFE) can also put it on a Debate,  and We shall See what the Final Outcome would be"...

=> There are, Certainly, Ways to Improve the Existing Mechanisms, that we (EU) Already have".

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cfe_press_conf.__eucom_vpres_suica_reply_to_agg_quest_23_oct_2021_eurofora_400

*** Surprisingly,  EUCommission Vice-President, in charge of Democracy, Suica's reply to "Eurofora" was quite Different:

- "We caN't preempt the Conclusions : As we said, We are Trying to Listen, to See what Citizens Ask from Us".

-"But, Also, as Mr Dovzan said, the EU Commission has Mechanisms, we have like "Citizens' Initiative", or "Have Your Say", different "Public Consultations", (etc),

- "So that "We are in Constant Dialogue with Citizens", she Claimed.

+ "Our MEPs are Also in Dialogue with their Constituents, also National Parliamentarians", etc. So, we have Contacts'.

=> "But, Now, we are Trying to EmPower outselves with the Ideas, the New Creativity of our Citizens. This is something Completely New".

- "But, Let's See What the End of these Deliberations show", (she apparently Reserved her Final appreciation for Later-on).

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But if some had, eventualy, made Sucia claim that "Eurofora"s Project would not bring something realy New for Citizens' Rights, then, such a Misundesrstanding would be a series of Blatant Errors !

- First of all, Obviously, "Have Your Say", and "Citizens' Consultations", are Mere "Consultations", and Not at all a Real "Dialogue" !

F.ex., inter alia, they doN't include at all any EU Citizens' Right to ask a Judge to Control whether EU Commission really Replied to All their legitimate Critical Observations, if it did so Sufficiently, based on Real Facts, and/or Valid Legal Arguments, concerning a Proportionate Measure, aiming to reach a Legal Aim of General Interest, Oherwise Cancelling it, if it did Not. (While, on the Contrary, in accordance with "Eurofora"s published Proposal, An Affected EU Citizen would have been given such a Right to immediately Trigger such a Judicial Control, on any or All of those 7 Points)...

+ As for the UnFortunate "Citizens' Initiative", foreseen by EU's Lisbon Treaty, But Notoriously "Killed", in real Practice, until now, by an Excessively Restrictive and Heavy Reglementation by EU Commission, (initialy endorsed by a Majority in an Old EU Parliament, in the Past), ..

>>> Indeed, those EU Commission's Excessively Heavy PreConditions agains the ECI, had More Bureaucratic Obstacles than ...the Dust from a Big Icelandish Volcano which had Notoriously Downed almost all European Airplanes, by a Coincidence, that Same Day of 2010, (as "Eurofora" Timely and systematicaly had Reminded in All Questions we raised, then, to All Press-Conferences organized by EU Parliament's Political Parties :See ... + http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/lellouchvolcanoashclouds.html + ... , etc) !

Only an Original, Ground-Braking Cooperation between EU Citizens and MEPs, (practicaly giving to the latter a still Lacking "Legislative Initiative"), as Proposed by "Eurofora" already since 2020, (See: http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/mepdurandeuroforaonfutureconf.html + http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/mepdurandeuroforaonfutureconf.html, etc), might Help Bypass the current Deadlock of ECI.

=> The Inevitable Consequence was to Practicaly Undermine that "Citizens' Initiative" tool of Lisbon Treaty, Resulting in a Spectacular Deadlock, Often Denounced by Many People and EU Politicians, until recently, to the poin that such a Scandalous situation made Even the EU Parliament itself to lately Ask on 2021 for a Necessary Change, in order to Make, at last, the ECI more Accessible to real Citizens' concerns in the foreseable Future, (See : http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/euparliamentoneuroforaproject.html , etc)...

But, Until Now, the Only attempt to Ameliorate, a Little bit, that "Citizens' Initiative"'s Scandalously Restrictive regime, was a Concrete Proposal, (initialy made by "Eurofora"s co-Founder, to EU Parliament's Historic Rapporteur on that issue, French MEP and former EU Affairs Minister, Alain Lamassure, who had Accepted to finaly include it in his Draft Report then), to, at least, let the Authors Participate in a Debate with MEPs inside EU Parliament, (which does Not engage them in Anything, remaining a Simply "Moral" or Symbolic move, withOut Any Legislative or Other Consequence, at least for the Time being)... [See f.ex. Lamassoure's and EU Commissioner Cefcovic's relevant Replies to "Eurofora"s Questions at the Key Press-Conference on ECI's imminent, then, creation, Back on 2010, at : http://www.eurofora.net/newsflashes/news/debatesincitizensinitiatives.html ].

=> Therefore, many converging Crystal-clear and Verifiable Facts prove that, Obviously, Miss Suica's "Experts" on such kind of Issues, Failed her, and MisLed her too much, with False Appearances and Blatant Erroneous and Unsubstantiated Claims about a so-called "pre-existing" EU Citizens' Right of "Dialogue" with EU Decision-Makers Before Decisions affecting their Lives or Society (Comp. Supra), which, in fact, does Not Exist yet...

>>>  Such a Misunderstanding would, indeed, be considered as an illegal act, due to be Cancelled by a Judge, according to "Eurofora"s proposed Legal Mechanism, for at least ... Five (5) Reasons :

 (1)"InSufficient Motivation" : It doesN't take into account the Fact that Individual EU Citizens and Groups of Less than 1 Million (sic !), or Not meeting those Numerous Bureaucratic Conditions imposed by Brussels, (Comp. Supra), do Not have Yet, Nowadays, the Rights that "Eurofora"s Project would give them, for the 1st Time. (In this regard, the Blatant Censorship of "Eurofora"s registered Proposal, at those "Reports" prepared by some Anonymous Bureaucrats Misrepresenting what Really Exists in CoFoE's Web Platform - Contrary to Explicit Links at Many Other, even Caricatural, Hasty claims- speaks for itself for a blatant Discrimination by some, apparently AFraid of Ideas able to Bring Real and Far-Reaching Modern Democratic Changes)...

 (2) "Non-Existent Fact" : Neither "Have your Say", "Consultations", nor "ECI", do Not include EU Institutions' Obligation to give to the Affected Citizens a full and Sufficient Motivation Justifying Why they might Refuse to Stop a planned Measure, by Replying, point by point, to All Citizens' relevant Arguments and Facts, cited in Support of their Opposition, (Contrary to what Suica's above-mentioned Claim obviously implies).

 (3)"Legal Error" : Nothing in "Have Your Say", "Consultations", or "ECI" does Not Give, to each EU Citizen Affected by a planned EU Measure, a Legal Right Equal to that proposed by "Eurofora"s Project, (placed under the Control of a Judge, able to Cancel such an EU Institution's Act, for having followed an Irregular Process of Decision-Making).

 (4) Neither a "Prportionality" Control, Nor for an eventual "Obvious Error of Appreciation", do Not Accompagny Miss Suica's cases of Simple "Consultations", "Have your Say", or "ECI" pre-existing Old Tools, while, on the Contrary, Judges usually Check such Issues in the cases concerned by "Eurofora" Project's Judicial Control of Public Administration Acts... (See, f.ex, "Eurofora" co-Founder's more than 1.000 pages relevant Original Legal Research on Comparative Law, proposed by Strasbourg's Faculty of Law for a Prize awarded to PhD Thesis, after a written proposal by Paris II University Professor Paul Amselek).

 (5) "Detournement de Pouvoir" (French Legal term) : By Falsely Claiming that "Eurofora"s Project would Not Bring Anything really New (sic !), in fact, such a Misconception looks as an Attempt to Muzzle, on the Contrary, a very Far-Reaching Proposal, considerably Strengthening EU Citizens' Democratic Rights in Modern Society...

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>>> At any case, if there might be any kind of Doubt to anyone involved, Why Not Follow the Advise just Given by EU Council's President-in-office, European Affairs Minister Gasper Dovzan, in Conclusion of his Interesting Reply, against any eventual Attempt to Muzzle "Eurofora"'s above-mentioned Query, about the Creation of a brand New EU Citizens' Right to such a "Dialogue": 

- I.e. to Simply Launch a specific EU "Debate" on that Issue, "and See What the Final Outcome would be" (Comp. Supra) ? 

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cfe__euparliaments_coordinator_verhofstadt_in_press_conf_on_plenary_by_3_chairs_eurofora_400

+ By the way, didn't EU Parliament's Coordinator on CFE, Guy Verhofstadt, just Stress, shortly Earlier, that he Expects for Action around EU Citizens' Proposals, (as Also that of "Eurofora"), to Soon "Intensify", during the Next few Months ?...

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cfe_2nd_plenary_debate_on_citizens_web_platform_ideas_eurofora_400

=> The overall and Sharp Tone of Several "Hot" Interventions, by Various Actors, (Participating Citizens' Ambassadors, MEPs, NGOs, Local-Regional Representatives, Social Partners, etc) during Today's Afternoon 2nd Plenary of the CFE, dealing with Citizens' Ideas at the Web Platform, (i.e. Including that of "Eurofora"s registered Proposal, with More than 750 Followers), gave a Vivid Impression that Many European People really Wished a Change towards such Novel and Modern Democratic Tools, in EU-Citizens relations Nowadays !

 

(../..)

 

("Draft-News")

 

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  imag0573_400

    An "Eugenic" loophole Amendment, which might expose to Dangers reminiscent of "3rd Reich's" notorious Genetic Abuses, hidden at the last minute inside an otherwise Good, larger Health policy Package scheduled to be voted on Thursday, was strongly denounced by a coalition of MEPs from various Political Groups and Countries, in a Press Conference held this afternoon at EU Parliament in Strasbourg.

    Mainly calling to "Select Human Embryos", via "Genetic Counselling" and "pre-implantation" Techniques including "Genetic Tests", in order to "Eradicate Hereditary rare Diseases", it might open ways to Dangerous Practices in Future, they denounced in substance.

    But they also made it clear that a much larger Report inside which this Controversial Amendment "No 15" was added in dubious circumstances, officialy destinated to struggle against "Rare Diseases", and drafted by Professor Antonios Trakatellis, was otherwise "an Excellent Report", aiming at a "completely Uncontroversial target" of Health policy on which "all MEPs and Experts are united, believing that Europe should act" to protect People's Health (See "EuroFora"'s earlier News).

    The controversy came at a particularly delicate moment for the EU in relation to Citizens, at the eve of June 2009 EU Elections, and shortly before Ireland re-votes for "Lisbon Treaty"..    

- Denouncing risks of "an Eugenic demand, very similar to what we had during the 3rd Reich in Germany, but now coming from some Scientisists themselves", German ChristianDemocrat/EPP MEP Dr. Peter Liese stressed that critical MEPs were against "Eugenic" engineering with "Selection of Human Embryos", and anything which might ultimately lead up to to a "Selection of Human Race". It doesn't help to "eradicate" Human Lives, he added.


    Several Experts and NGOs expressed "Deep Concern", as f;ex. DR M.C. Cornel of the "European Society of Human Genetics", which stressed, on this occasion, that "the importance of Non-Directiveness in Reproductive issues is a Central characteristic of Human Genetics, after the Atrocities committed in the name of Genetics in the first half or the 20th Century".

     - "This is completely Unacceptable", stressed Italian Liberal MEP Vittorio Prodi, on the Controversial Amendment, also because pushes to "eliminate early Human Life", as he noted.

     - "This opens a Dangerous Road, rather a Motorway", denounced Danish MEP Mrs Margrette Auken, from the "Greens", observing that various similar attempts were made in the Past "not only in Germany, but also in several other Countries, "even at the 1970ies", "f.ex. on forced Sterilisation of Roma" People, and other criticisable situations f.ex. in the UK, in Sweden, etc. as she said.

    + Other NGOs, as f.ex. "LebenHilfe" from Berlin, added that, among various other Risks, could also be that, by exploiting the pre-implantation Genetic Diagnostics and the Selection of "healthy" Embryos, some may "propagate" several "Eugenic" aims, starting f.ex. by pushing to eradicate Human Livies which might "Cost too much" to preserve, ultimately exposing to dangers reminiscent of the "3rd Reich"'s atrocious abuses.

    In consequence, ChristianDemocrats/EPP and "Green" MEPs "decided by Majority to vote against" this Controversial Amendment, anounced to Journalists the 5 MEPs who participated in the Press Conference, representing a wide spectrum, from Liberals to "Greens" and ChristianDemocrats, and from Hungary, Italy, Germany and Danemark up to Ireland (Gay Mitchell), etc.
----------------------------------
    Hungarian ChristianDemocrat MEP Laszlo Surjan said "that it was "Suddenly, at the End of the Procedure" in Committee, that "appeared this (Controversial) Amendment, which has nothing to do" with the main purpose of the Report, on which all agreed.

    He denounced an "Unhonest" move, and called to "avoid this kind of unacceptable situations". Nobody should "Select People", Surjan stressed.

    - "We (MEPs) had No Chance to Discuss" this last-minute Amendment earlier added at a Committee's level, said German MEP Peter Liese

    Speaking to "EuroFora", Dr. Liese, the Spokesman of the ChristianDemocrat/EPP Group in EU Parliament, said that MEPs didn't oppose other references of the Report f.ex. on "Genetic Tests", because they were "no proposals" to impose them, while, on the contrary, there was "a Problem" if anyone attempted to "impose" f.ex. this or that Genetic Technique and "Genetic Counselling", etc. to the People on human reproduction.
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The precise Text :
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    Controversial parts of Amendment No 15 ask mainly "to lead finally to the Eradication" of "Hereditary" "rare diseases", "through Genetic Counselling .., and ..pre-Implantation Selection of healthy Embryos".

    But  EU Rapporteur Professor Trakatellis, said to "EuroFora" that fears should be alleviated by Guarantees that all this should be done only "where appropriate", when it's "not contrary to existing National Law", and "always on a Voluntary basis", according to other Parts of the Amendment.

    He stressed that the main aim was to allow "a free and informed choice of persons involved", without imposing them anything :  - "It's not an obligatory, but advisary" text, he said.

    To make that point clear, he was ready, in agreement with many MEPs, to eventually drop at least that part of the controversial Amendment which initially called for "efforts to ..lead finally to the Eradication of those rare diseases" "which are Hereditary".

    But, until late Wednesday evening, reportedly together with many other MEPs, he stood by all the rest of the controversial Amendment, (fex. on the "Genetic Counselling" and the "pre-implantation Selection of healthy Embryos"), so that critical MEPs, going from ChristianDemocrats as Dr. Liese, to "Greens" or "Ind/Dem", observed to "EuroFora" that "this was not enough" to close the dangerous loophole.

    Particularly since, as Professor Trakatellis noted himself, "this is already allowed to the U.K.", and "other National Legislations would probably follow, sooner or later" in a similar direction. As for a general call to "Eradicate Hereditary rare Diseases", this "should happen, at any case, in practice, de facto", to protect public Health.

    On the contrary, "our goal should be to help patients suffering from rare diseases, not to eradicate the patients. In case of genetic disease risk, the decision should not be guided by scenarios" made by politicians. "Perents who may decide to accept a child, even if handicapped or with genetic disease, must be respected and supported with solidarity", critical MEPs stated.

    - "Any Pressure" to "a patient or couple (who "should be able to make an informed choice consistent with their own values"),"from health Professionals, Public Health Policies or Governemental Institutions, or Society at large, should be avoided", stresses the "European Society for Human Genetics".

----------------------------------

Each MEP's vote will be registered !

-----------------------------------   

The Socialist Group requested a "Split vote" on the Amendment 15, first without, and afterwards with the words "lead finally to the Eradication" etc.


    But the first "split vote" leaves intact all the other parts of the Controversial Amendment, (i.e. "Genetic Counselling", "Selection of healthy Embryos", etc).

    That's why, 3 Groups of MEPs : ChristianDemocrats/EPP, "Greens/EFA", and "Ind/Dem", have asked for "Roll Call Votes", on everything regarding the Controversial Amendment No 15, and on the final outcome of the resulting Report as amended, which will register all the individual positions to be taken by each MEP.   

Something which will obviously make each MEP think twice before voting for one or another choice, to be sure that he/she will make the right choice in front of EU Citizens, particularly at these pre-Election times...


    Crucial Votes were scheduled between 12 Noon and 1 p.m. local Strasbourg time, in the middle of a long series of various other Reports, and after a long Public Debate on the larger Health policy package, from 9 to 11.50 am.

    The specific Report inside which was hidden the controversial Amendment is due to be debated between 11 and 12 am.

    So that more last-minute Surprises may not be excluded a priori...

    Particularly at the present Historic moment, when even the Institutional Future of the EU depends on the result of a second Referendum on "Lisbon Treaty", later this year, in ...Ireland, a mainly Catholic country, where People are particularly sensitive in such kind of socio-cultural and values issues...
 

      ***     
 
     (Draft due to be updated).
 
***

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